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OtherGround Forums >> Property Records Cast Doubt On Bundy’s Claims


4/24/14 1:28 AM
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Looney Ronulan Paultard
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DoovyB -

i dont trust people who are always on the same side in every debate

Better not to be on the side of the government. Phone Post 3.0
4/24/14 7:33 AM
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Tidbits
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DoovyB - 

i dont trust people who are always on the same side in every debate


You obviously missed where I was originally on Bundy's side, until information started to come out.
What information? Phone Post 3.0

That he lost multiple court cases, that he threatened officials, that he was profiting off the use of public land, that he was not just some "rancher", but a multi-millionaire, that his story about his family and having rights to the land that predated the governments is bullshit ....
Only that last bit has come to light since the beginning, so when we're you on Bundy's side? Phone Post 3.0

http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=forum_framed.posts&forum=2&thread=2308974&page=4


Tidbits - Waiting on all the gun nuts who scream so loudly here about having their guns to protect themselves from a tyrannical government to put up or shut up. If they believe so strongly they need to be packing up and heading to Nevada.

BTW, I kind of am siding with this guy but, it seems that the land is not owned by him but by the Federal Gov and he was paying to use it.

My great grandpa bought the rights to the Bunkerville allotment back in 1887 around there. Then he sold them to my grandpa who then turned them over to my dad in 1972. These men bought and paid for their rights to the range and also built waters, fences and roads to assure the servival of their cattle, all with their own money, not with tax dollars.



So essentially it is like you renting the place you live in. You stop paying rent or decide to use the residence in a way the landlord doesn't like and the landlord revokes your rights to live there.

From a legal sense it seems pretty cut & dry although the "preemptive rights" thing is interesting, but it would seem to me that actual ownership of the land trumps those rights.



I accept your apology.

Wow.

You went in knowing barely anything.
In true form not much has changed.

"Pre-emptive" rights have never been the issue. Not then, and not now, despite being brought up, and WE'LL SEE how that unfolds.

To answer your stupid question in the post HERE, "Why doesn't everybody go to Nevada and fight the government", here's why:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTIKM_H1gM0



For those of you wondering what leg Bundy has to stand on, it's the same leg that has always stood up against a tyrannical government.

OUR government is employing ex-military, (guys who know nothing but war, trained since before the development of their frontal lobe) to strong arm corporate interests.

I keep hearing the word "taxes". Now correct me if I'm wrong, are these not "grazing fees" he's been avoiding?

Now why is he not paying them?

His claim: Because the BLM has not been using the money to improve the land, they are using it to buy out all the other farmers, while raising fee prices, squeezing all the farmers/cowboys out of the territory.

What do we have CURRENTLY to substantiate this?

Regarding land improvement, nothing I've seen.

HOWEVER, regarding squeezing people out of their land, there was a post on the other thread with a link to a woman's story.
She claimed that since the beginning until now, "grazing fees" have gone up 90%, and paying grazers have gone from

FIFTY-TWO, TO THREE

http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2014/04/open-letter-from-bundy-neighbor-cliven-bundy-is-a-hero-2940244.html

Who's behind Bundy?
ALL THE RANCHERS AND COWBOYS, governors, mayors, sheriffs, city council members, and on and on and on.

Has anyone ever seen the movie Shane?

This situation is like that, only the assholes are the government, and instead of buying them out, they are bleeding all the farmers dry, until ALL THE LAND is "federal".

52-3 in 40 years.

Welfare?
That is the stupidest thing I've heard.
This is a victimless crime. This is also how the government controls the people. Let some time go by, let the turtle story die, bring up a welfare double standard, and convince the left that this is class welfare, and...... "*And pretty soon, they will be clamoring for us to drone strike them!, PERFECT! MwaHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!

Range war?

This guy said what anyone would say if they're trying to steal everything he's worked for his entire life.
While he's been working, ranching, employing, ect., the government has been making money selling debt and stealing, from IT'S own people.

Is it bad to be a "millionaire"?

Well, first off, he's employing people.
Second, he may not be one if he paid grazing fees. He may be in the same boat as other's allegedly squeezed off the land.
Third, the word millionaire means jack shit anymore. You've GOT to be one to retire comfortably, BEFORE YOU'RE DEAD, THANKS TO THE GOVERNMENT.

The state and states surrounding stand on Bundy's side.
That means ALOT.

Why would anyone want government to have more of a grip on people???!!!!

I have to tell myself that anyone taking a stance against Bundy is
Misinformed, or
morally corrupt, or
vested interest, as in government/socialists, ect.

If some dude is having his cattle graze in the desert, SO WHAT?
How does this harm you?
How does it affect you?

TORTOISE!!!!

Your ramblings have nothing to do with my position or the fact that you were wrong.

You asked when was I on Bundy's side, and I provided the proof.

As for the information, it came out over several days, as is normal with developing news stories. I was originally sympathetic to the man and his plight UNTIL I obtained additional information, specifically that the guy was a rich asshole who was making money by using public lands, threatened people and had lost multiple court cases.

4/24/14 7:40 AM
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Tidbits
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Is it bad to be a "millionaire"?


When you make your money using PUBLIC lands and not paying for their use? Yes.

Welfare?


I forgot it is only a dirty word when applied to the POOR.

The state and states surrounding stand on Bundy's side


Ummmm, no they do not. If they did he would have WON his court cases.

I have to tell myself that anyone taking a stance against Bundy is
Misinformed, or
morally corrupt, or
vested interest, as in government/socialists, ect.


No. They just believe in the RULE OF LAW, and that just because you have MONEY it does not allow you to profit off of PUBLIC property and threaten people.


If some dude is having his cattle graze in the desert, SO WHAT?
How does this harm you?
How does it affect you?

TORTOISE!!!!


It harms me and society at large because it shows that there are 2 sets of laws. One for the RICH and one for everyone else. That you can not pay to use PUBLIC land just because you don't like how those are spent or who they go to.

4/24/14 7:59 AM
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David@accu
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Lofland - Does Bundy's side have any kind of serious response to the specific facts mentioned here?




Bundy already admitted he owed around $300,000(Bundy's estimate).


I don't understand what the debate is? The guy basically is a squatter. That's what people are defending. A guy who thought he was better than every other rancher and decided he shouldn't have to pay the same fee's and taxes everyone else had to.

His argument that he "updated the land" is nonsense. It's land out in the middle of no where. The only reason he did anything to the land was for his own gain and benefit. Making your own property look nicer doesn't mean you should pay less in taxes or in Bundy's case no taxes at all.

The "Merica Derp Rangers" are too stupid to admit their wrong.
4/24/14 8:44 AM
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Tidbits
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Now I know the source will get attacked but if some of the derps take the time to actually read it....who am I kidding, they won;t read anything that challenges and or disproves their little fantasy world.

http://www.salon.com/2014/04/24/fox_news_worst_cliven_bundy_lies_22_right_wing_delusions_about_the_absurd_standoff/

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