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OtherGround Forums >> Sotomayor Pulls the Race Card...


4/23/14 12:31 PM
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e. kaye
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Wise Latina.  So we were told.

4/23/14 12:58 PM
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Lite
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checkuroil - Until entrenched cultural issues are dealt with, throwing kids into colleges they are not qualified to attend will not help. More funding for family planning and emphasis on early education could help far more than race based admissions at a college level. There is an entire segment of a certain cultural population that still vilifies studying. I see how people could think that creating the opportunity to attend school might change the culture , but I don't think it does.

I am Jewish. My people emphasize studying over everything. Mothers talk about their children's education as a badge of honor. In my family, you would not dream of getting anything less than a masters degree. In fact, my degree from ucla, which was a top 25 school when I went, is scoffed at compared to my cousins who all went to penn and Yale.

When other cultures start to follow suit in pushing their kids in this manner, then there will be real change. Kids learn to be interested in the value of education from their family. If that value is not there, then it's rare for a child to find it on their own

Bill Cosby tried to address these issues and was crucified. Maybe other leaders can be successful Phone Post 3.0

I agree with the argument for family planning and early education, but only note that its mostly the same people who are against affirmative action that are against funding those things.
4/23/14 1:07 PM
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PatK
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checkuroil - Until entrenched cultural issues are dealt with, throwing kids into colleges they are not qualified to attend will not help. More funding for family planning and emphasis on early education could help far more than race based admissions at a college level. There is an entire segment of a certain cultural population that still vilifies studying. I see how people could think that creating the opportunity to attend school might change the culture , but I don't think it does.

I am Jewish. My people emphasize studying over everything. Mothers talk about their children's education as a badge of honor. In my family, you would not dream of getting anything less than a masters degree. In fact, my degree from ucla, which was a top 25 school when I went, is scoffed at compared to my cousins who all went to penn and Yale.

When other cultures start to follow suit in pushing their kids in this manner, then there will be real change. Kids learn to be interested in the value of education from their family. If that value is not there, then it's rare for a child to find it on their own

Bill Cosby tried to address these issues and was crucified. Maybe other leaders can be successful Phone Post 3.0

This.

 

4/23/14 1:10 PM
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Ryan Prouty
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In Sotomayors defense she had it tough growing up the only hispanic in NYC.

4/23/14 1:18 PM
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Horus2001
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checkuroil - Until entrenched cultural issues are dealt with, throwing kids into colleges they are not qualified to attend will not help. More funding for family planning and emphasis on early education could help far more than race based admissions at a college level. There is an entire segment of a certain cultural population that still vilifies studying. I see how people could think that creating the opportunity to attend school might change the culture , but I don't think it does.

I am Jewish. My people emphasize studying over everything. Mothers talk about their children's education as a badge of honor. In my family, you would not dream of getting anything less than a masters degree. In fact, my degree from ucla, which was a top 25 school when I went, is scoffed at compared to my cousins who all went to penn and Yale.

When other cultures start to follow suit in pushing their kids in this manner, then there will be real change. Kids learn to be interested in the value of education from their family. If that value is not there, then it's rare for a child to find it on their own

Bill Cosby tried to address these issues and was crucified. Maybe other leaders can be successful Phone Post 3.0
As long as the phrase "acting white" continues to fall from the lips of people of certain ethnic groups, as long as they consider speaking in complete and clear sentences, having critical thinking skills and being able to read beyond a 12th grade level is considered trying to be white, then nothing is going to change. Phone Post 3.0
4/23/14 1:43 PM
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DevilDawg
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Edited: 04/23/14 1:58 PM
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Exactly!! In order to really break the cycle people have to get away from their little sub-culture. Acting ghetto or hood people need to stop considering it as the real black or Latino culture.You can carry yourself with dignity and pride without having to act like another race.

I grew up poor, and in a fucked up neighborhood. I know regardless how bad we had it my mom always tried to steer me away from the ghetto behavior. I did get in my fair share of trouble, but I was raised to try to better my situation.When I turned 18, I joined the Marines. After the Marines I got a job afterwards and went to school at night. My kid never experienced having the utilities cut, or having to go to a food bank. She goes to a private school and are equipped with what ever is required for them to do well in academics and sports. We are working towards college through ROTC or scholarships, if she can't get a full scholarship for academics or sports then CC and transfer out.

I taught her the goal for children is to make sure that each generation is supposed to be more successful than the previous. Her grandparents from both side came here to America with limited funds and gave up what the had back at home to create opportunities the next generation. I work hard to provide her everything she needs to excel even if it deprives me of things, so her mission is to succeed and do well in life without compromising her values.
4/23/14 2:03 PM
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TheKidAintMine
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4/23/14 2:06 PM
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HereWeAre
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A white hispanic who went to two ivy leaugue schools. tafuck does she know about racism?  Did someone call her a wetback in 8th grade and make her cry?


Are you saying that there is no racism against hispanics amongst the predominately rich white ivy league colleges?


Yes


What fantasy world do you live in? Or are you trying to insinuate that only poor uneducated people are racist?

4/23/14 2:42 PM
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Isaac Bickerstaff
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Edited: 04/23/14 2:43 PM
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Race is a social construct of people parading as scientists and experts looking to justify the poor treatment of groups of people based on surface differences.  The same goes for sexual orientation.  Homosexuality was invented to differentiate people with same sex attractions from "normal" straight people when there are no such neat and sharply demarcated physiological distinctions to be made in human sexuality.  Race and sexual orientation are non-scientific myths created by people looking to justify bad treatment.  Now stupid liberals, who claim to be all about justice, have strangely embraced these make believe divisions between people in the name of helping them while continuing to perpetuate the very things that separate and divide people.  What if we abolished race as any kind of legal category and, if we must give help to people based on some condition, why don't we give help to those who are poor?  After all, affirmative action has primarily helped wealthier "minorities" anyway.  How about we stop with these make believe distinctions among people and you are either a citizen of the US or you are not.  No race, no sexual orientation, and, frankly, no gender.  

I know liberals think they are making up for past injustices, but they are actually perpetuating demarcated differences that only keep racism and sexism and every other ism going. 

4/23/14 2:48 PM
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Wes_Mantooth
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A white hispanic who went to two ivy leaugue schools. tafuck does she know about racism?  Did someone call her a wetback in 8th grade and make her cry?


Are you saying that there is no racism against hispanics amongst the predominately rich white ivy league colleges?


Yes


What fantasy world do you live in? Or are you trying to insinuate that only poor uneducated people are racist?


I live in the real world where Hispanics and Blacks are cherished by rich Ivy League schools. They are cherished so much that they are treated almost like infant children that cannot do anything for themselves and need to recieve handouts based on their skin tone.
4/23/14 2:58 PM
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Trust
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Edited: 04/23/14 3:22 PM
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Mixed Martial Arts, L.L.C., Moderator

The "break the cycle" notion is noble, but when you look at high school drop out rates by demographic, you can see what an uphill, upcliff that notion is in reality.  Those kids who drop out, regardless of race or socio-economic status, are basically turning down free education; they're certainly not thinking of going to college, let alone getting into a good college.  More than being given priority in admissions, I think some sort of public relations campaign is needed to get young people, especially in low income regions, to value education.  

4/23/14 3:42 PM
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amadeus
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Isaac Bickerstaff - I know liberals think they are making up for past injustices, but they are actually perpetuating demarcated differences that only keep racism and sexism and every other ism going.


Actually it just plain out and out racism...

If I tell you that because you are black you are not smart enough and too lazy to accomplish it alone; and that you're not good enough to get by on your own merits, you would rightfully call me a racist. That is exactly what liberal affirmative action policies are built on.

Benevolent racism is still racism...
4/23/14 4:27 PM
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DevilDawg
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C0NAN - 
DevilDawg - Exactly!! In order to really break the cycle people have to get away from their little sub-culture. Acting ghetto or hood people need to stop considering it as the real black or Latino culture.You can carry yourself with dignity and pride without having to act like another race.

I grew up poor, and in a fucked up neighborhood. I know regardless how bad we had it my mom always tried to steer me away from the ghetto behavior. I did get in my fair share of trouble, but I was raised to try to better my situation.When I turned 18, I joined the Marines. After the Marines I got a job afterwards and went to school at night. My kid never experienced having the utilities cut, or having to go to a food bank. She goes to a private school and are equipped with what ever is required for them to do well in academics and sports. We are working towards college through ROTC or scholarships, if she can't get a full scholarship for academics or sports then CC and transfer out.

I taught her the goal for children is to make sure that each generation is supposed to be more successful than the previous. Her grandparents from both side came here to America with limited funds and gave up what the had back at home to create opportunities the next generation. I work hard to provide her everything she needs to excel even if it deprives me of things, so her mission is to succeed and do well in life without compromising her values.

It's not always easy to get away from the subculture.

You chose the military, and yes that is often an effective vehicle. But many people do not want to risk their lives as part of a military machine that often operates unethically.

I, for one, feel ashamed that my taxes even contributed to the Iraq War. I did have a choice, I could have moved abroad, changed my citizenship, to avoid paying into that war effort. There is always a choice.

I stayed because staying was more convenient. There are no innocents. Everyone is complicit one way or another.

But aside from the military, there are few vehicles for grade school flunkies (who are unprepared for even community college), to just get away if they want to.

Well the subculture of poverty are poor peoples (black, white, Asian ect) worst enemy. You tell them to stop acting like that, and they'll say you're a racist or snobby if your not the same color as them and your a sell-out if you are the same color. Fix the subculture and the whole country benefits.

If you can't make it into college or even a community college then there are trades. Not everyone was meant to go to college, some trades make more money than degree holders. I for one would switch my corporate management job for taking up plumbing, electrician or long shoring if I could start over at 23. Great money, fresh air (with the exception of plumbing, LOL!), I can act like a guy and it's a job I don't have to dress up.

There's nothing wrong with the trades, it's respectable and honest living.

As far as the military goes there are a ton of jobs that will not put you in any real harms way. The military has cooks, mechanics, plumbers computer technicians and they even have enlisted news anchors, one of my current co-worker was one.
4/23/14 5:04 PM
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DevilDawg
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C0NAN - You can disconnect the culture of poverty from blackness, but you will never "fix" the subculture.

There will always be poor people. Even if this country somehow "fixed" black and Hispanic cultural priorities, there will just develop a new underclass of people who are genetically stupider or lazier, because both IQ and work ethic have significant genetic components.

The only difference would be that this new underclass will be more representative of all other races.

Otherwise, the cultural tendencies of the underclass will stay the same, because genetically stupid and lazy people will create fucked up subcultures. That is to be expected.

At the end of the day, it is impossible for society to save every person from him/herself. Everyone has to die one day, we don't have unlimited time and energy for other people's failures.

That's all you need to do is to remove the behavior of poverty as an acceptable part of their culture. I don't get how Latinos or poor Asians do the same thing too, the seem to think that it erases their culture.

When you go back to many of their home countries the middle and upper classes don't sag their pants or act ghetto and no one accuses them of being whitewashed or sellouts. Here in the U.S. it seems that poor people seem to think moving on to better things is the same thing as forgetting about your "roots".

Regardless, I was able to pull myself out of poverty, I know a few others who did as well and some did it without going through the military or even college. We can't help people who don't want to help themselves, if you want it enough and you have a couple of brain cells you do better for yourself.
4/23/14 5:10 PM
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steve85uk
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DevilDawg -
C0NAN - You can disconnect the culture of poverty from blackness, but you will never "fix" the subculture.

There will always be poor people. Even if this country somehow "fixed" black and Hispanic cultural priorities, there will just develop a new underclass of people who are genetically stupider or lazier, because both IQ and work ethic have significant genetic components.

The only difference would be that this new underclass will be more representative of all other races.

Otherwise, the cultural tendencies of the underclass will stay the same, because genetically stupid and lazy people will create fucked up subcultures. That is to be expected.

At the end of the day, it is impossible for society to save every person from him/herself. Everyone has to die one day, we don't have unlimited time and energy for other people's failures.

That's all you need to do is to remove the behavior of poverty as an acceptable part of their culture. I don't get how Latinos or poor Asians do the same thing too, the seem to think that it erases their culture.

When you go back to many of their home countries the middle and upper classes don't sag their pants or act ghetto and no one accuses them of being whitewashed or sellouts. Here in the U.S. it seems that poor people seem to think moving on to better things is the same thing as forgetting about your "roots".

Regardless, I was able to pull myself out of poverty, I know a few others who did as well and some did it without going through the military or even college. We can't help people who don't want to help themselves, if you want it enough and you have a couple of brain cells you do better for yourself.
Voted up for having a civil discussion without resorting to idiotic partisan shit Phone Post 3.0
4/23/14 5:49 PM
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DevilDawg
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We both see kinda eye to eye. We both know there is a problem and we both accept the problem poor people acting like poor people and not a lack of government mandated Affirmation Action. Although there is a large number of poorer blacks and Latinos, we both agree that it's not really due to racism, but more because the poorer folks have created this cycle of self destruction.

The only area we don't completely see eye to eye on is how to fix the problem. One of his proposed solutions is that the government should step in and try to alleviate the problem through enticing better teachers in these impoverished areas with higher pay,my concern for that is that it would take away teachers from the more affluent schools where the parents are more likely to be paying in a higher tax bracket.

I am a firm believer of survival of the fittest, and we need to re-instill that it's shameful to be a failure and to act like one no matter what color you are. It seems that we celebrate thuggery and bad publicity too much. I grew up from a poor single parent household and with my mother working full-time in a convalescent boarding home I pretty much had to look after myself while she pulled 24-48hr shifts and when I was younger being a poor Asian kid makes you a big target for poor black, white and Latino kids. I don't consider myself by any means to have above average intelligence, but I got out of poverty by desire and taking personal action.

Now if it probably would have resulted to name calling if he would of went to went straight to government needs to mandate all Affirmative Action, and if I would of said they are poor cause they aren't white like me.
4/23/14 6:28 PM
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DevilDawg
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I think a lot of Asians also do something that other groups don't seem to do at a higher percentage is to invest into the next generation. Your kid is an extension of yourself, it's not just another mouth to feed.

I read that the democrats are trying to restart AA in California. I read that this has created a big uproar in the Asian community. 29% are in the UC system total and about 45% in UC Irvine. Me being Asian I am very concerned about it, I am doing everything right to raise my kid, and my kid is doing everything she can to be the best she can be why should she lose her spot in college or at job just because someone wants to play race guilt. Worse comes to worse being Filipino we do have Spanish last names.
4/23/14 7:06 PM
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andyloveshugs
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Is this the dumbest SCOTUS we've had in a long time?


They're all been pretty dumb since around the 1940s.  The era of reasonable justices ended with the New Deal, when that Court caved in response to FDR's threat to pack the Court. 

Marbury v. Madison was the Court's high point; the Court was on a downward slide after that, and fell off a cliff with Wickard v. Filburn.   They have been filling decisions with intellectual cancer that metasticizes in subsequent decisions.  

The present Court allows the government to compel economic activtity under threat of penaly (and ultimately at gun point), collect and store all communications of citizens, believes the government can take private property for any reason or even no reason, and recognizes no distinction between intra-state and inter-state commerce.  

 


they were even worse prior to the new deal and have never been good. always were a politicized group who were on the conservative (against change of any sort), pro-statist side. 

4/23/14 7:08 PM
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Combat Sport Fan
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im fine with admissions based on financial situation. It makes more sense and will help people of all races



Affirmative action cant be explained as not discriminating. Especially since Whites males are loosing the majority in colleges anyway.
4/23/14 7:11 PM
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thesleeper
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QuinTheEskimo - I for one welcome our new asian overlords. Phone Post 3.0

This. Cali is dominated by Asians, white people are going to be wishing for affirmative action in the future.
4/23/14 7:13 PM
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gokudamus
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aclu72 joins the dissent

4/23/14 8:08 PM
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gregbrady
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C0NAN - 
DevilDawg - I think a lot of Asians also do something that other groups don't seem to do at a higher percentage is to invest into the next generation. Your kid is an extension of yourself, it's not just another mouth to feed.

I read that the democrats are trying to restart AA in California. I read that this has created a big uproar in the Asian community. 29% are in the UC system total and about 45% in UC Irvine. Me being Asian I am very concerned about it, I am doing everything right to raise my kid, and my kid is doing everything she can to be the best she can be why should she lose her spot in college or at job just because someone wants to play race guilt. Worse comes to worse being Filipino we do have Spanish last names.

Asian Americans should not be opposing AA. They should be demanding AA benefits equal to that of blacks and Hispanics.

It sounds like shameless entitlement, but that's exactly how haggling works. You never make the deal you really want your first offer, you lowball your opponent, and force them to compromise in the middle.

If the goal is to erase AA, Asians need to be shameless in demanding MORE than their fair share. That's the dirty, unethical game everyone else plays, and it's the only way to at least get a fair shake here.

Asian parents also need to teach their kids to be just as aggressive, unethical, and greedy as everyone else. This culture forces you to either play dirty, or get a shit deal.

correct


if only Asians could be more like blacks and latinos



/sarcasm
4/23/14 8:09 PM
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gregbrady
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Combat Sport Fan - im fine with admissions based on financial situation. It makes more sense and will help people of all races



Affirmative action cant be explained as not discriminating. Especially since Whites males are loosing the majority in colleges anyway.

white males haven't been a majority in college for decades.

almost all colleges enroll more women than men and have for years
4/23/14 8:26 PM
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banco
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Lite - I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but . . .

Among other reasons for affirmative action is the desire to break up an entrenched underclass and get them to buy into the bigger picture. Less Tupacs and more Huxtables. It's a more plausible solution to the "culture problem" that the O'Reilly's rant about than more and more incarcerations, which has actually made things worse.

The black underclass aren't the ones taking advantage of affirmative action in colleges. It's the black middle class that benefits from affirmative action. In fact you'll find at top unis a wildly disproportionate number of "black" students are first generation immigrants from the Carribean.
4/23/14 10:08 PM
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alkysmurf
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So why can't we nullify the system? Everyone mark African american, or Hispanic depending on region on all forms that ask. Can they say no your not black enough? Or no john smith your not Hispanic enough? Phone Post 3.0

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