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OtherGround Forums >> 9/11: Incontrovertible Proof Government is Lying


6/12/14 11:11 AM
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angryinch
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Tidbits - 
angryinch - 
Bispingpongbuttlicker - The level of retardation in this thread is worryingly high. Phone Post 3.0

Agreed.  It's still mindboggling to me how people can be so retarded as to accept the govt's official story when it is so full of holes.  


Lack of evidence is not the same as evidence of proof.

Yes the "official" story has holes. Did you or others ever think that maybe those holes are there intentionally for "national security" reasons or maybe, just maybe the "official story" is based upon the best available evidence and the evidence itself has holes. Not every single occurrence can be explained 100%.

So ask yourself which is the more believable story:

1. That 19 (20) individuals who were part of a well funded/connected global terrorist network hijacked planes and flew them into several buildings

or

2. That a small cabal of evil men/women in our own government utilizing hundreds if not thousands of individuals to assist in perpetrating the attacks to further a neo-con agenda.

Right, because those are the only two options.  

6/12/14 11:13 AM
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Tidbits
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angryinch - 
Tidbits - 
angryinch - 
Bispingpongbuttlicker - The level of retardation in this thread is worryingly high. Phone Post 3.0

Agreed.  It's still mindboggling to me how people can be so retarded as to accept the govt's official story when it is so full of holes.  


Lack of evidence is not the same as evidence of proof.

Yes the "official" story has holes. Did you or others ever think that maybe those holes are there intentionally for "national security" reasons or maybe, just maybe the "official story" is based upon the best available evidence and the evidence itself has holes. Not every single occurrence can be explained 100%.

So ask yourself which is the more believable story:

1. That 19 (20) individuals who were part of a well funded/connected global terrorist network hijacked planes and flew them into several buildings

or

2. That a small cabal of evil men/women in our own government utilizing hundreds if not thousands of individuals to assist in perpetrating the attacks to further a neo-con agenda.

Right, because those are the only two options.  


So what are the other options? Because #2 can be expanded to cover any other "conspiracy" theory.
6/12/14 11:19 AM
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angryinch
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Tidbits - 
angryinch - 
Tidbits - 
angryinch - 
Bispingpongbuttlicker - The level of retardation in this thread is worryingly high. Phone Post 3.0

Agreed.  It's still mindboggling to me how people can be so retarded as to accept the govt's official story when it is so full of holes.  


Lack of evidence is not the same as evidence of proof.

Yes the "official" story has holes. Did you or others ever think that maybe those holes are there intentionally for "national security" reasons or maybe, just maybe the "official story" is based upon the best available evidence and the evidence itself has holes. Not every single occurrence can be explained 100%.

So ask yourself which is the more believable story:

1. That 19 (20) individuals who were part of a well funded/connected global terrorist network hijacked planes and flew them into several buildings

or

2. That a small cabal of evil men/women in our own government utilizing hundreds if not thousands of individuals to assist in perpetrating the attacks to further a neo-con agenda.

Right, because those are the only two options.  


So what are the other options? Because #2 can be expanded to cover any other "conspiracy" theory.

There are an almost infinite number of other options.

One of the most realistic is that the govt knew about the plan beforehand and let it happen so they could use the attack to justify the gazillion things they've done since then like the war on Iraq, the patriot act, the ramping up of their war on our rights, etc...

6/12/14 11:30 AM
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truewrestler
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"There are an almost infinite number of other options."

yes... yes there are... if we are going to just start making shit up
6/12/14 11:34 AM
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Cookie Monster
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Black Belt, Huntington, WV
Sub Phone Post 3.0
6/12/14 1:10 PM
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Tidbits
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There are an almost infinite number of other options.

One of the most realistic is that the govt knew about the plan beforehand and let it happen so they could use the attack to justify the gazillion things they've done since then like the war on Iraq, the patriot act, the ramping up of their war on our rights, etc...


All of which are predicated upon the premise that a "small cabal/group" of "evil/amoral" people killed several thousands of their own citizens in order to further their won agenda. The problem is that these types of conspiracies ask you to believe that there are no good, decent, selfless people in the federal government or that not a single person involved has any type of conscience.

Lets for sake of argument look at your "the govt knew about the plan beforehand and let it happen". How many people knew? Not a single person who knew has a conscience? they left absolutely zero paper trail? No conspiracy theory junkies work in the CIA or NSA and just for shits and giggles would search and leak documents? Come on, for real?
6/12/14 1:16 PM
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Chimp Strength
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I laughed at the guy saying it takes thousands of degrees to bend steel. Yeah righto mate.

6/12/14 1:16 PM
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NeckCranks
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pfsjkd - 
NeckCranks -
pfsjkd - 
NeckCranks - A lot of 9/11 conspiracy theories are pure insanity.

The collapse of the buildings (especially 7) and the immediate confiscation and non-release of nearby surveillance footage of the pentagon are two things that are, at the very least, perplexing.
Nothing perplexing at all about either the main towers or wtc 7's collapse. Phone Post 3.0

The idea that jet planes could crash into two sound buildings and that fire could cause an entire structure to not only collapse, but to collapse perfectly into its footprint is extremely perplexing.

Not to mention, building 7 collapsed exclusively from fire (allegedly).

Those things are eyebrow raising. I'm not saying I buy any of the truther, inside job, illuminati nonsense, but the collapses are unsettling.

If you completely buy the story of the 9/11 commission, I don't know what to say to you. The public will only know whatever version of the truth the government wants us to know.
You seem to be operating with typical layman logic with regards to the collapses.

First of all, fire didn't bring the main towers down so much as the heat generated by the fire. That is, the structure didn't collapse due to its own combustion. It collapsed from being weakened by the prolonged heat. As Mr. Wright pointed out, the structure was markedly different than other skyscrapers.

Secondly, it's a little bit disingenuous to say that it 'fell into its own footprint'. It did massive damage to the surrounding areas (including WTC 7 which suffered major damage up to the 18th floor on one side). But I know when you say 'fell into its own footprint' you really mean 'fell straight down'. The problem with this reasoning is that pretty much all buildings of that size will fall straight down more or less when their structure fails due to their size and weight. Did you expect it to topple over at the failure point like a tree?

There really isn't any compelling info contradicting the theory of the physical collapse. Well, other than the nano-thermite or underground nuke theories, which are so compellingly stupid.

Cotton's ideas of what led to 9/11 are much more deserving of inquiry (even if he's probably wrong) than all the internet generated myths kicked around about the collapses. Phone Post 3.0

It's not layman logic. The building had been supporting that weight for four decades. I don't see how weakening the steel (even though I'm pretty sure jet fuel doesn't burn hot enough to significantly weaken steel) at the top of a structure would compromise the structural integrity of the entire building.

Also, you talk about prolonged heat. I'm to believe that a mere two hours of burning is enough for catastrophic, structural damage? Who built this thing? The first two pigs?

It absolutely fell into its own footprint. It fell straight down at free fall speed. Everything about its collapse is comparable to a demolition.

Obviously a building of that size would cause collateral damage to the surrounding areas. It reduced 100 floors of steel and concrete to rubble.

Like I said - i'm not of the mindset that there's some government coverup going on, but the collapse looks fishy. There are many other buildings that have burned for longer and have been older and (presumably) less structurally sound than the WTCs and they didn't collapse.

Seriously....2 hours. That's all it took. Without the help of some type of explosive device, I don't think it's possible.

And if you can seriously accept Building 7's collapse as plausible, then i've got a bridge to sell you.
6/12/14 1:21 PM
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NeckCranks
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On a side note some Billionaire should go build a WTC in some secluded place and simulate this event just to see what would really happen.
6/12/14 1:35 PM
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truewrestler
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step 1: spend billions of dollars to track and stop terrorists

step 2: gain information about terrorist plan to fly planes into some of the most important military and financial buildings in the US

step 3: plant bombs at the buildings

perfectly logical
6/12/14 1:41 PM
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opencipher
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I love how the big bad ole government, can orchestrate false flag attacks, terrorism, plant bombs, fly planes in building and manage to keep everyone quiet........but can't stop a guy with YouTube in his mom's basement from figuring it all out.
6/12/14 1:45 PM
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Tidbits
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opencipher - I love how the big bad ole government, can orchestrate false flag attacks, terrorism, plant bombs, fly planes in building and manage to keep everyone quiet........but can't stop a guy with YouTube in his mom's basement from figuring it all out.

or stop one "low level systems admin" from leaking their secrets.
6/12/14 1:52 PM
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NeckCranks
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Keep setting up straw men, boys.

I can do it, too:

So you mean that around a dozen relatively uneducated Muslims were able to hijack 4 planes loaded with people with only box cutters and execute the greatest attack on american soil with zero help?
6/12/14 1:55 PM
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Cotton
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truewrestler - Cotton,

So you are suggesting that one or more high ranking official sin the United States government colluded with Al Quaeda to allow for the attacks on 9/11 to occur? To you it is obvious that this was likely the case and not one of the thousands of law enforcement and intelligence people involved considered or investigated this matter.

"What else would need to happen is a window in our defense to be down in order for such an attack to be carried out."

Why is that? The holes in our defense on 9/11 were that blades could easily be carried onto plane and that cockpits are opened during a hostage situation. I don't think we have a realistic defense against a plane travelling hundreds of miles an hour under radar.

So what exactly are you suggesting someone did that day that allowed the planes to hit the twin towers and pentagon? Disabled metal detectors at airports, unlocked cockpit doors, disabled the invisible missile defense shield protecting government buildings?

Someone enabled them to carry it out. Most likely people within US intelligence and/or with strong ties to military contractors. That is who the signs point to IMO. Muslims could not and did not create the climate I mentioned and I do not believe all of those were mere coincidences. The climate was created to all those attacks IMO.

The fact that were was not a legit investigation on within is like police not investigating a husband on a murder of his wife. It is doing a shitty job.

Whomever helped with his may have even think they did go. High level sociopaths have a Machiavellian mentality. If you are of that mindset are a couple thousand people worth trillions in profit and a paradigm shift to causes you want with much less public rejection? Fuck, Pakistan paid for it and 14/19 were from SA and yet we went into two other countries. It worked well.
6/12/14 2:00 PM
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truewrestler
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"Someone enabled them to carry it out..... created the climate"

What does that even mean? Did they help the terrorists get knives on the planes, open the cockpit door or keep the planes from being detected?
6/12/14 2:03 PM
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angryinch
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NeckCranks - Keep setting up straw men, boys.

I can do it, too:

So you mean that around a dozen relatively uneducated Muslims were able to hijack 4 planes loaded with people with only box cutters and execute the greatest attack on american soil with zero help?

Apparently so.  A bunch of uneducated camel fuckers with box cutters were able to carry out the biggest attack on American soil but anyone who thinks the US govt is lying to us about their own role in the events is a conspiracy theorist and a lunatic.  

Tidbits and others, I don't have all the answers.  But what I do know is that the govt's version of events doesn't add up.  Certain govt agents were tracking the terrorists before the attack and they were ordered by higher-ups to back off and stop investigating those people.  That in and of itself is enough to tell me that the govt knew something and was either involved in it directly or simply stood by and let it happen so they could further their agenda.  

BTW, the govt also swore up and down that it wasn't spying on US citizens and you guys are the same ones who bought into that bullshit and insisted that the govt didn't have the technology to do it and that even if they did, they would never misuse it in that manner.  Then Snowden came along.   

And now, even after Snowden, you fucktards are STILL believing everything the govt feeds you.  

6/12/14 2:06 PM
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Cotton
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truewrestler - "Someone enabled them to carry it out..... created the climate"

What does that even mean? Did they help the terrorists get knives on the planes, open the cockpit door or keep the planes from being detected?

Someone got intelligence to look the other way to not watch them and had exercises at the exact time that put down our defense shield. That is creating the climate. No clue on the stuff about boxcutters or anything like that. My guess that came from their own training and preparation.
6/12/14 2:11 PM
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truewrestler
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"A bunch of uneducated camel fuckers with box cutters"

Nearly all of them had higher education and many had college degrees.
6/12/14 2:13 PM
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Tidbits
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angryinch - 
NeckCranks - Keep setting up straw men, boys.

I can do it, too:

So you mean that around a dozen relatively uneducated Muslims were able to hijack 4 planes loaded with people with only box cutters and execute the greatest attack on american soil with zero help?

Apparently so.  A bunch of uneducated camel fuckers with box cutters were able to carry out the biggest attack on American soil but anyone who thinks the US govt is lying to us about their own role in the events is a conspiracy theorist and a lunatic.  

Tidbits and others, I don't have all the answers.  But what I do know is that the govt's version of events doesn't add up.  Certain govt agents were tracking the terrorists before the attack and they were ordered by higher-ups to back off and stop investigating those people.  That in and of itself is enough to tell me that the govt knew something and was either involved in it directly or simply stood by and let it happen so they could further their agenda.  

BTW, the govt also swore up and down that it wasn't spying on US citizens and you guys are the same ones who bought into that bullshit and insisted that the govt didn't have the technology to do it and that even if they did, they would never misuse it in that manner.  Then Snowden came along.   

And now, even after Snowden, you fucktards are STILL believing everything the govt feeds you.  


Did you even read what I said?

Here I will quote it
Lack of evidence is not the same as evidence of proof.

Yes the "official" story has holes. Did you or others ever think that maybe those holes are there intentionally for "national security" reasons or maybe, just maybe the "official story" is based upon the best available evidence and the evidence itself has holes. Not every single occurrence can be explained 100%.

So ask yourself which is the more believable story:

1. That 19 (20) individuals who were part of a well funded/connected global terrorist network hijacked planes and flew them into several buildings

or

2. That a small cabal of evil men/women in our own government utilizing hundreds if not thousands of individuals to assist in perpetrating the attacks to further a neo-con agenda.


I and others are not saying "we believe" the government 100% or blindly. What we are saying is that the official story is much more believable than all of the conspiracy theories being floated.
6/12/14 2:14 PM
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truewrestler
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"at the exact time that put down our defense shield"

What shield? That is what I'm getting at. Do you think there was a passenger plane interception missle battery setup at these buildings or something. There is literally nothing that required government help on the day of the attacks.
6/12/14 2:16 PM
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angryinch
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"What we are saying is that the official story is much more believable than all of the conspiracy theories being floated."

That fact that you find the official story believable at all is what's troubling.  I do not need to know exactly what happened at every level and who was involved and in what capacity in order to be able to tell you that the "official" story is a giant steaming crock of shit.  

Only an idiot would find the official story believable. 

 

6/12/14 2:17 PM
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NeckCranks
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To entertain the extremely unsettling idea that the government knew something about this attack or even worse, orchestrated it, we have to ask ourselves: What did the U.S. government stand to gain?



And if you think about it...

quite a bit.
6/12/14 2:21 PM
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truewrestler
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There is a famous quote... "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic". I would like to propose a new one for the internet "Any sufficiently retarded person is indistinguishable from a troll".
6/12/14 2:21 PM
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Tidbits
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angryinch - 

"What we are saying is that the official story is much more believable than all of the conspiracy theories being floated."

That fact that you find the official story believable at all is what's troubling.  I do not need to know exactly what happened at every level and who was involved and in what capacity in order to be able to tell you that the "official" story is a giant steaming crock of shit.  

Only an idiot would find the official story believable. 

 


Dude, seriously, people were sneaking shit on planes AFTER 9-11 showing how security was a joke (and still is). For you NOT to believe it could be done and is far less probable than a massive conspiracy, well only an idiot would think that.
6/12/14 2:26 PM
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Tidbits
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NeckCranks - To entertain the extremely unsettling idea that the government knew something about this attack or even worse, orchestrated it, we have to ask ourselves: What did the U.S. government stand to gain?



And if you think about it...

quite a bit.

Yes the government did, but the sheer number of people who would have needed to be involved at all levels pretty much guarantees that it would not stay secret. You know how many people can keep a secret? 2, but only if 1 of them is dead. 9-11 was almost 13 years ago. How long did the NSA spying stay secret? Less than 5 years. It was first exposed in 2006, and there were FAR fewer people who knew about it than would be needed to pull off an operation on the scale of 9-11

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