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OtherGround Forums >> 9/11: Incontrovertible Proof Government is Lying


6/12/14 2:17 PM
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NeckCranks
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To entertain the extremely unsettling idea that the government knew something about this attack or even worse, orchestrated it, we have to ask ourselves: What did the U.S. government stand to gain?



And if you think about it...

quite a bit.
6/12/14 2:21 PM
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truewrestler
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There is a famous quote... "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic". I would like to propose a new one for the internet "Any sufficiently retarded person is indistinguishable from a troll".
6/12/14 2:21 PM
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Tidbits
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angryinch - 

"What we are saying is that the official story is much more believable than all of the conspiracy theories being floated."

That fact that you find the official story believable at all is what's troubling.  I do not need to know exactly what happened at every level and who was involved and in what capacity in order to be able to tell you that the "official" story is a giant steaming crock of shit.  

Only an idiot would find the official story believable. 

 


Dude, seriously, people were sneaking shit on planes AFTER 9-11 showing how security was a joke (and still is). For you NOT to believe it could be done and is far less probable than a massive conspiracy, well only an idiot would think that.
6/12/14 2:26 PM
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Tidbits
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NeckCranks - To entertain the extremely unsettling idea that the government knew something about this attack or even worse, orchestrated it, we have to ask ourselves: What did the U.S. government stand to gain?



And if you think about it...

quite a bit.

Yes the government did, but the sheer number of people who would have needed to be involved at all levels pretty much guarantees that it would not stay secret. You know how many people can keep a secret? 2, but only if 1 of them is dead. 9-11 was almost 13 years ago. How long did the NSA spying stay secret? Less than 5 years. It was first exposed in 2006, and there were FAR fewer people who knew about it than would be needed to pull off an operation on the scale of 9-11
6/12/14 2:30 PM
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NeckCranks
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Tidbits - 
NeckCranks - To entertain the extremely unsettling idea that the government knew something about this attack or even worse, orchestrated it, we have to ask ourselves: What did the U.S. government stand to gain?



And if you think about it...

quite a bit.

Yes the government did, but the sheer number of people who would have needed to be involved at all levels pretty much guarantees that it would not stay secret. You know how many people can keep a secret? 2, but only if 1 of them is dead. 9-11 was almost 13 years ago. How long did the NSA spying stay secret? Less than 5 years. It was first exposed in 2006, and there were FAR fewer people who knew about it than would be needed to pull off an operation on the scale of 9-11

You're assuming it would need to be a lot of people. In truth we don't know how many people or who was behind it.

I'm just saying that the version fed to the American people is probably not the truth.

And that applies to a great number of national events (JFK, for instance). I think we'll never know the truth about 9/11. Maybe it's not as nefarious as "Truthers" would have you believe. But I wouldn't put my chips on the 9/11 commission's version. That's for damn sure.
6/12/14 2:43 PM
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Rantuckjr
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I have a question about building 7.

So the US planned or allowed this attack. And they set off explosions causing the buildings to collapse, including clearly building 7, because it was impossible for it to fall otherwise.

How did that part of the conspiracy go?


"Hey Bob, we've got all the explosives set for the 2 WTC towers but we've got a bit of leftover. What should i do with it?"

"Line up Tower 7 and we'll drop that one too"

"But Bob, won't that be a dead give away? With no "plane" hitting that building and nothing but a little fire falling from the other buildings, if that one collapses it's going to make it look like it was a controlled explosion"

"Fuck it, Americans are idiots. They'll never catch on to that"
6/12/14 2:43 PM
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Tidbits
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NeckCranks - 
Tidbits - 
NeckCranks - To entertain the extremely unsettling idea that the government knew something about this attack or even worse, orchestrated it, we have to ask ourselves: What did the U.S. government stand to gain?



And if you think about it...

quite a bit.

Yes the government did, but the sheer number of people who would have needed to be involved at all levels pretty much guarantees that it would not stay secret. You know how many people can keep a secret? 2, but only if 1 of them is dead. 9-11 was almost 13 years ago. How long did the NSA spying stay secret? Less than 5 years. It was first exposed in 2006, and there were FAR fewer people who knew about it than would be needed to pull off an operation on the scale of 9-11

You're assuming it would need to be a lot of people. In truth we don't know how many people or who was behind it.

I'm just saying that the version fed to the American people is probably not the truth.

And that applies to a great number of national events (JFK, for instance). I think we'll never know the truth about 9/11. Maybe it's not as nefarious as "Truthers" would have you believe. But I wouldn't put my chips on the 9/11 commission's version. That's for damn sure.

I think the 9/11 commissions version is what happens when politics get involved in an investigation. I think that the general premise and facts of it are most likely true, but I think there are many other pieces of the puzzle that were either intentionally left out or may have been missed completely.

A lot of conspiritards like to bring up The Gulf Of Tonkin without really knowing about it or only knowing what some website or YouTube video told them about it. My personal opinion is that 9/11 is probably in many ways comparable to the Gulf Of Tonkin incident. Basically the Gulf Of Tonkin incident was caused by incompetence and miscommunication, then a group of individuals used it to push us to war. I think the same is very likely with 9-11.

6/12/14 2:54 PM
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angryinch
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Tidbits - 
angryinch - 

"What we are saying is that the official story is much more believable than all of the conspiracy theories being floated."

That fact that you find the official story believable at all is what's troubling.  I do not need to know exactly what happened at every level and who was involved and in what capacity in order to be able to tell you that the "official" story is a giant steaming crock of shit.  

Only an idiot would find the official story believable. 

 


Dude, seriously, people were sneaking shit on planes AFTER 9-11 showing how security was a joke (and still is). For you NOT to believe it could be done and is far less probable than a massive conspiracy, well only an idiot would think that.

Who says it has to be massive?  Are you saying the govt is inept at keeping secrets?  Really?  You don't think the govt has any secrets we don't know about?   Do you think the govt doesn't carry out any conspiracies?  Please tell me that's what you believe because I'd like to shut you up by posting several conspiracies that turned out to be true.

That said, do you think every single conspiracy the govt has carried out has been exposed?  We only know about a few of them.  Do you think we know about every conspiracy or shenanigan the govt has pulled on us?  

Stop drinking the fucking kool aid man!

6/12/14 2:58 PM
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TryhardNobody
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Rantuckjr - I have a question about building 7.

So the US planned or allowed this attack. And they set off explosions causing the buildings to collapse, including clearly building 7, because it was impossible for it to fall otherwise.

How did that part of the conspiracy go?


"Hey Bob, we've got all the explosives set for the 2 WTC towers but we've got a bit of leftover. What should i do with it?"

"Line up Tower 7 and we'll drop that one too"

"But Bob, won't that be a dead give away? With no "plane" hitting that building and nothing but a little fire falling from the other buildings, if that one collapses it's going to make it look like it was a controlled explosion"

"Fuck it, Americans are idiots. They'll never catch on to that"

They had to drop Building 7 because they ran the attacks out of it. Giuliani's bunker that they built in #7 is where they pressed the buttons that set off the explosives and could see everything as it happened. That floor (Giuliani's bunker) had its own air and water supply and hurricane proof windows put in. Then when everything was over it has to be taken out due to all the evidence in it. Better to explain why a building exploded than be caught with all the shit they had in the bunker
6/12/14 2:59 PM
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JonnyW
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Rantuckjr - I have a question about building 7.

So the US planned or allowed this attack. And they set off explosions causing the buildings to collapse, including clearly building 7, because it was impossible for it to fall otherwise.

How did that part of the conspiracy go?


"Hey Bob, we've got all the explosives set for the 2 WTC towers but we've got a bit of leftover. What should i do with it?"

"Line up Tower 7 and we'll drop that one too"

"But Bob, won't that be a dead give away? With no "plane" hitting that building and nothing but a little fire falling from the other buildings, if that one collapses it's going to make it look like it was a controlled explosion"

"Fuck it, Americans are idiots. They'll never catch on to that"

Well first you need to get your facts right. Building 7 had a portion of it sheared off by falling debris. Add on to that an uncontrolled fire and you can get your answer. 

6/12/14 3:08 PM
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Tidbits
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Who says it has to be massive?

Do you know how many people it takes to demo a building using explosives? Do you know how many people it would take to load and transport said explosives?

Are you saying the govt is inept at keeping secrets?
Snowden proved that in this age it is pretty difficult, although possible. Sheer probability. The more people who know about something the more likely it is to come out.

You don't think the govt has any secrets we don't know about?

Of course they do, but they all come out sooner or later. CIA torture? CIA's role in various coups? The stuff that is still secret is buried in paper not electronic records.

That said, do you think every single conspiracy the govt has carried out has been exposed? We only know about a few of them. Do you think we know about every conspiracy or shenanigan the govt has pulled on us


I think the true number of "conspiracies" perpetrated by our government is far fewer than you believe and probably greater than what I believe.

Shall I go on?

Once again it is not I drinking the Kool Aid, it is you being irrational and paranoid simply because you don't like the "official" story and it doesn't answer every question.
6/12/14 3:53 PM
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Rantuckjr
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JonnyW - 
Rantuckjr - I have a question about building 7.

So the US planned or allowed this attack. And they set off explosions causing the buildings to collapse, including clearly building 7, because it was impossible for it to fall otherwise.

How did that part of the conspiracy go?


"Hey Bob, we've got all the explosives set for the 2 WTC towers but we've got a bit of leftover. What should i do with it?"

"Line up Tower 7 and we'll drop that one too"

"But Bob, won't that be a dead give away? With no "plane" hitting that building and nothing but a little fire falling from the other buildings, if that one collapses it's going to make it look like it was a controlled explosion"

"Fuck it, Americans are idiots. They'll never catch on to that"

Well first you need to get your facts right. Building 7 had a portion of it sheared off by falling debris. Add on to that an uncontrolled fire and you can get your answer. 


Maybe missed the sarcasm?
6/12/14 4:01 PM
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JonnyW
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Rantuckjr - 
JonnyW - 
Rantuckjr - I have a question about building 7.

So the US planned or allowed this attack. And they set off explosions causing the buildings to collapse, including clearly building 7, because it was impossible for it to fall otherwise.

How did that part of the conspiracy go?


"Hey Bob, we've got all the explosives set for the 2 WTC towers but we've got a bit of leftover. What should i do with it?"

"Line up Tower 7 and we'll drop that one too"

"But Bob, won't that be a dead give away? With no "plane" hitting that building and nothing but a little fire falling from the other buildings, if that one collapses it's going to make it look like it was a controlled explosion"

"Fuck it, Americans are idiots. They'll never catch on to that"

Well first you need to get your facts right. Building 7 had a portion of it sheared off by falling debris. Add on to that an uncontrolled fire and you can get your answer. 


Maybe missed the sarcasm?

Definately did my friend

6/12/14 5:18 PM
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GOREILLAMAN
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truewrestler - There is a famous quote... "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic". I would like to propose a new one for the internet "Any sufficiently retarded person is indistinguishable from a troll".

Yeah, I'll go ahead and give you a VTFU for that one.
6/12/14 5:21 PM
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rrg1
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JonnyW - 
Rantuckjr - I have a question about building 7.

So the US planned or allowed this attack. And they set off explosions causing the buildings to collapse, including clearly building 7, because it was impossible for it to fall otherwise.

How did that part of the conspiracy go?


"Hey Bob, we've got all the explosives set for the 2 WTC towers but we've got a bit of leftover. What should i do with it?"

"Line up Tower 7 and we'll drop that one too"

"But Bob, won't that be a dead give away? With no "plane" hitting that building and nothing but a little fire falling from the other buildings, if that one collapses it's going to make it look like it was a controlled explosion"

"Fuck it, Americans are idiots. They'll never catch on to that"

Well first you need to get your facts right. Building 7 had a portion of it sheared off by falling debris. Add on to that an uncontrolled fire and you can get your answer. 


Yep and that explains why it fell exactly like the two towers which got rammed by two jetliners lol.

You can't be this naive.
6/12/14 5:39 PM
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JonnyW
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rrg1 - 
JonnyW - 
Rantuckjr - I have a question about building 7.

So the US planned or allowed this attack. And they set off explosions causing the buildings to collapse, including clearly building 7, because it was impossible for it to fall otherwise.

How did that part of the conspiracy go?


"Hey Bob, we've got all the explosives set for the 2 WTC towers but we've got a bit of leftover. What should i do with it?"

"Line up Tower 7 and we'll drop that one too"

"But Bob, won't that be a dead give away? With no "plane" hitting that building and nothing but a little fire falling from the other buildings, if that one collapses it's going to make it look like it was a controlled explosion"

"Fuck it, Americans are idiots. They'll never catch on to that"

Well first you need to get your facts right. Building 7 had a portion of it sheared off by falling debris. Add on to that an uncontrolled fire and you can get your answer. 


Yep and that explains why it fell exactly like the two towers which got rammed by two jetliners lol.

You can't be this naive.

So what you are saying is that all the buildings were hit by an outside source, then had fires buring out of control that weakened the internal structures, but they couldn't fall the same way? Got it, everything makes perfect sense to me now.

6/13/14 2:13 AM
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Cotton
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It is hilarious how most people don't even try to engage me on this subject. I guess I am not bombastic enough. Only if you blame Jews or claim it was space beams does one side want to engage because it is easy to pick out morons who say things like that. When confronted with real info, not so much.
6/13/14 4:09 AM
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okiebug
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Cotton - It is hilarious how most people don't even try to engage me on this subject. I guess I am not bombastic enough. Only if you blame Jews or claim it was space beams does one side want to engage because it is easy to pick out morons who say things like that. When confronted with real info, not so much.

I'm old enough to remember when saying that you didn't believe the warren commission got you labeled as a conspiracy nutbag.
6/13/14 5:20 AM
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dawley
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I'm subbing for after breakfast Phone Post 3.0
6/13/14 5:53 AM
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nickgjj
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The dust samples were collected and brought in for testing months later...they weren't just collected immediately and tested. There was a guy on the joe rogan show that talked about it pretty indepthly. Chain Of custody, an the length of time were what always made this conspiracy not believeable to me. There are just two many unknowns that could hve happens in that length of time. Phone Post 3.0
6/13/14 8:50 AM
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truewrestler
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Cotton - It is hilarious how most people don't even try to engage me on this subject. I guess I am not bombastic enough. Only if you blame Jews or claim it was space beams does one side want to engage because it is easy to pick out morons who say things like that. When confronted with real info, not so much.

Are you suggesting that someone in the US Government helped the terrorists get knives on the planes, open the cockpit door or keep the planes from being detected?
6/13/14 9:26 AM
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angryinch
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truewrestler - 
Cotton - It is hilarious how most people don't even try to engage me on this subject. I guess I am not bombastic enough. Only if you blame Jews or claim it was space beams does one side want to engage because it is easy to pick out morons who say things like that. When confronted with real info, not so much.

Are you suggesting that someone in the US Government helped the terrorists get knives on the planes, open the cockpit door or keep the planes from being detected?

I don't know about any of that but I do know that someone in the US govt told agents who were keeping tabs on and investigating the terrorists before the attack to back off and leave the terrorists alone.  

You don't find that the least bit suspicious?

6/13/14 9:29 AM
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rrg1
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JonnyW - 
rrg1 - 
JonnyW - 
Rantuckjr - I have a question about building 7.

So the US planned or allowed this attack. And they set off explosions causing the buildings to collapse, including clearly building 7, because it was impossible for it to fall otherwise.

How did that part of the conspiracy go?


"Hey Bob, we've got all the explosives set for the 2 WTC towers but we've got a bit of leftover. What should i do with it?"

"Line up Tower 7 and we'll drop that one too"

"But Bob, won't that be a dead give away? With no "plane" hitting that building and nothing but a little fire falling from the other buildings, if that one collapses it's going to make it look like it was a controlled explosion"

"Fuck it, Americans are idiots. They'll never catch on to that"

Well first you need to get your facts right. Building 7 had a portion of it sheared off by falling debris. Add on to that an uncontrolled fire and you can get your answer. 


Yep and that explains why it fell exactly like the two towers which got rammed by two jetliners lol.

You can't be this naive.

So what you are saying is that all the buildings were hit by an outside source, then had fires buring out of control that weakened the internal structures, but they couldn't fall the same way? Got it, everything makes perfect sense to me now.


So, you're just dense? Got it.

Two of the buildings got ran into by a fucking AIRLINER full of fuel...they go down EXACTLY in the same manner....building 7 which DID NOT get rammed by a plane full of fuel goes down in EXACTLY the same manner and you honestly see nothing questionable about this?

Good God man, there's no helping you lol.
6/13/14 9:30 AM
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rrg1
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Fucking humor me; Please show me other buildings like 7 falling like so due to office fires.

If you can't tell from the videos that the thing was brought down in a CONTROLLED manner, then you are 100% delusional or lying.
6/13/14 9:38 AM
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truewrestler
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Edited: 06/13/14 9:41 AM
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"You don't find that the least bit suspicious?"

I don't find it suspicious. Usually mistakes and/or incompetence are my immediate assumption. I don't just assume a conspiracy when the government fails at something.

Just to be clear... Is your belief is that the terrorists did not need assistance in their attack, but that government intelligence officials gained specific knowledge of the attacks ahead of time then intentionally looked the other way in order to allow the attacks to occur?

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