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UnderGround Forums >> Why did BJ not use his bjj to the fullest?


7/7/14 9:45 PM
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Mertvaya Ruka
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IAmNotImpressedbyYourStocktonSlap - 
Mertvaya Ruka - And how on earth did Penn go a full camp with partners/coaches etc and no one told him to drop that weird stance/game plan?

I can't see how the style he used was any more effective in sparring/training?

it's even more mind boggling when you realize he prepared months for THAT.
No offense but maybe he didn't really prepare at all? Phone Post 3.0

That could explain it, did we see any training footage for this fight beside the Nova Uniao stuff?

But even then, how could his corner let him do that and support him if that's the case? He was fighting a beast in FE.
7/7/14 9:59 PM
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JoelN
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Moke -
pNUTBUTTER - Sorry if this has been covered before. I only use the app.

BJ is badass at bjj, a prodigy at one point in his career yet all his submission wins are by rear naked choke and one arm triangle. Why didn't he use other techniques? When he was laid on by Hughes, gsp, Fitch and gnped by Frankie, why didn't he try for triangles, arm locks, kimuras, leg locks? Trying these techniques could have opened up fighters to mistakes and allowed him to get back to his feet.

Admittedly, I am ignorant to bjj and have only trained in aikido so if I am missing something obvious, please excuse me. Phone Post 3.0

With the caliber of people who've been on top of him, one could say, "Easier said than done".

Removing that factor, without knowing his intentions it's hard to say. You cannot know the intention unless it is executed successfully. However, it "appears" he's never had a very offensive guard (refer to my first sentence), and Frankie's camp obviously exploited this as part of their gameplan.

For me, I don't understand why he stuck to butterfly guard when he was getting hammered and threatened with passes. Butterfly offers sweeps and get-ups, but doesn't give you submission opportunities or punch protection like the closed guard does.
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7/7/14 10:01 PM
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JoelN
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Moke -
stillmatic - BJ is an enigma. He has the mindset where he has 1 game plan and if it fails, he will keep trying regardless and will not go to a plan B.

He didn't even try to defend takedowns and his strategy was to strike from the guard. He had literally zero success there and still kept going back to it instead of getting back up or attempting a sub or sweep. That along with his upright and on his toes stance was just baffling to watch as a fan.

Strategically it just made zero sense, but that's BJ Penn. He's going to do things his way regardless of what anyone else thinks.

You know, there's actually something to be said for that, and that's what was taught when I first started training...to be relentless in what you want and never give up going after it.

When it works you look like a Goddamned genius and pitbull. But when it doesn't, people are obviously going to question why the fuck you didn't adapt.

I have always thought I recognized that in a few BJ losses...where it appeared he had a specific plan, and just because it got difficult to implement, he didn't abandoned it. He kept faith in that it would eventually work. When it didn't, obviously we question, "Why?"

They say everyone has a gameplan until they get punched in the face. I'm sure BJ knows this saying and probably tries to not let that happen...to not let his gameplan and what he trained for fall apart. But like I said, when you lose it looks highly questionable.
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7/7/14 10:18 PM
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cm81
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Black Belt Wrestling - Because Edgar is a wrestler and in general these days if you can't wrestle (BJ) you can't fight
Edgar is more than a wrestler. He has spent years under Renzo and Almeida is his coach. He is effectively a very high level BJJ guy and he can deal with whatever BJ threw his way. Phone Post 3.0
7/7/14 10:44 PM
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Black Belt Wrestling
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Edgar is more than just a wrestler. He has spent years under Renzo and Almeida is his coach. He is effectively a very high level wrestler/bjj guy and he can deal with whatever BJ threw his way...
7/8/14 12:11 AM
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prof
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Figuring out BJ has always been schmuck's game.

He's talented, has been valiant to be sure, but never struck me as smart. He still sounds like a helio teenager. Basically he seemed to get by mostly on great talent and scrappiness. When you get older you need to fight smarter; apparently that's a strategy not open to BJ's mindset.
7/8/14 1:51 AM
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LowerYourExpectations
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The whole fight was perplexing. It looked like he had that upright stance to get Edgar to take him down where he could get a submission. Of course like others have said, it's easier said than done. If you play the counter fighter or waiting for an opening game, you're going to have to endure some punishment. BJ seemed more resilient in the past but every punch seemed to take the life out of him faster than we've ever seen. Getting older sucks.
But yes, there was absolutely no offense and counterpunching and submissions could have been the game plan but that all went out the window after absorbing some heavy shots.
I'll miss BJ but I'll choose to only remember his older fights.
7/8/14 2:27 AM
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PoopDooper
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pNUTBUTTER -
pitviper83 - BJ had Matt Hughes in a triangle for the last minute+ of the first round in their second fight Phone Post 3.0
Thank you for pointing this out. I'll have to rewatch that fight. Phone Post 3.0
If we're pointing out attempts, I think he tried an Omoplata, briefly, against Din Thomas.

And he I believe he actually finished Duane Ludwig with an armbar. Phone Post 3.0
7/8/14 2:30 AM
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PoopDooper
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PoopDooper -
pNUTBUTTER -
pitviper83 - BJ had Matt Hughes in a triangle for the last minute+ of the first round in their second fight Phone Post 3.0
Thank you for pointing this out. I'll have to rewatch that fight. Phone Post 3.0
If we're pointing out attempts, I think he tried an Omoplata, briefly, against Din Thomas.

And he I believe he actually finished Duane Ludwig with an armbar. Phone Post 3.0
Whoops, that was actually an arm triangle too, shonuff you right. Carry on. Phone Post 3.0
7/8/14 2:39 AM
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MrNiceguy66
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Low energy Phone Post 3.0
7/8/14 5:48 AM
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KO1
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stillmatic - BJ is an enigma. He has the mindset where he has 1 game plan and if it fails, he will keep trying regardless and will not go to a plan B.

He didn't even try to defend takedowns and his strategy was to strike from the guard. He had literally zero success there and still kept going back to it instead of getting back up or attempting a sub or sweep. That along with his upright and on his toes stance was just baffling to watch as a fan.

Strategically it just made zero sense, but that's BJ Penn. He's going to do things his way regardless of what anyone else thinks.

Agreed. BJ is very stubborn.
7/8/14 6:02 AM
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esque
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ChaosOverkill -

He seemed bewildered and sickly out there, the cut was worse than anyone wants to admit IMO. It sounds excusey but it's BJ he was never good at hard physical commitments, and his first time at 145 may have just taken all he had left.

I agree and his comments in the post-fight presser seemed to confirm this. Phone Post 3.0
7/8/14 6:15 AM
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RedDragonUK
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Its a mystery. His whole career Rogan would rant about how flexible he was and how good and quick Bj got his Black belt and ive seen his tutorials and rolling and hes amazing.

When it came to fights he rarely used any of it. Whether he gets a mind blank when hes underneath or what i dont know but im glad i got to see him give it his all in every other aspect. Phone Post 3.0

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