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UnderGround Forums >> Watered Down Cards Answered By Dana White


7/9/14 5:07 AM
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dwhy83
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During the recent fan expo Q&A, Dana White was asked about the watered down cards. To paraphrase, he answered that those cards weren't for you, the hardcore fan, but for a locale that it was custom tailored for.

Hearing Dana's explanation, it became perfectly clear to me what the UFC is doing: They're scaling out rather than scaling up.

In the past, many UGers have suggested creating a "development league" with lesser known fighters working up to the big show. This is essentially what the UFC is doing in developing these locale-based markets. Unlike a "development league" that has qualitatively worse fighters and nothing of value to offer, which nobody would want to watch, these locale-based markets will sustain themselves by appealing to those locales.

The key here is that appealing to a locale is a good substitute for not having the best talent. It will provide viewership, like how Spain watches their local Liga Endesa basketball league, or the US watches Major League Soccer, even though those leagues don't have the best talent.

Within these locale-based markets, the UFC will bring in a lot of new talent with locale-based Ultimate Fighter competitions. They will enable lesser-known guys to gain experience, build their records, earn money, and gain a fanbase in their locales. Once they've found a star in a locale, who breaks out into the top 15, they'll feed into the main PPV cards with a paying fanbase behind them.

Right now the talent might be somewhat distributed to help grow these locale-based markets, but once they're established it will ultimately feed more talent into the PPV cards. And for you, the hardcore fan, all this locale-based content will be on Fight Pass. There will be a saturation of content and it will be great.

It's genius what they're doing and I can't wait to see how it plays out.
7/9/14 5:11 AM
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Sloppy Single Leg
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I might be the only one that enjoys the over saturation of MMA these days. I love knowing that there will be fights on every weekend, whether I will watch them or not.
7/9/14 5:15 AM
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stonepony
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Sloppy Single Leg - I might be the only one that enjoys the over saturation of MMA these days. I love knowing that there will be fights on every weekend, whether I will watch them or not.

Not the only one. The Jersey Shore watchers get confused and angry. They don't understand. They just don't understand how every single other major sport works.

They think that boxing fans watch all the boxing matches that ever happen. They think that soccer fans watch 650 matches every season.

They really just can't be bothered to think. They're spoiled and they like to cry.
7/9/14 5:28 AM
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Sloppy Single Leg
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stonepony - 
Sloppy Single Leg - I might be the only one that enjoys the over saturation of MMA these days. I love knowing that there will be fights on every weekend, whether I will watch them or not.

Not the only one. The Jersey Shore watchers get confused and angry. They don't understand. They just don't understand how every single other major sport works.

They think that boxing fans watch all the boxing matches that ever happen. They think that soccer fans watch 650 matches every season.

They really just can't be bothered to think. They're spoiled and they like to cry.

This exactly!
7/9/14 5:40 AM
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stonepony
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Sloppy Single Leg - 
stonepony - 
Sloppy Single Leg - I might be the only one that enjoys the over saturation of MMA these days. I love knowing that there will be fights on every weekend, whether I will watch them or not.

Not the only one. The Jersey Shore watchers get confused and angry. They don't understand. They just don't understand how every single other major sport works.

They think that boxing fans watch all the boxing matches that ever happen. They think that soccer fans watch 650 matches every season.

They really just can't be bothered to think. They're spoiled and they like to cry.

This exactly!

Imagine trying to name every NFL player? Jesus...

MMA is not "over-saturated" IMO. It's simply getting to the point where there are enough competitors that you can't follow all of them. There are enough events happening that you can't watch all of them. Fucking God forbid...

Imagine a person who tries to watch every single pro boxing event that happens. Imagine he tries to follow every pro boxer? There are about 20,000 PRO boxers world wide. Does that boxing fan bitch and cry like a little girl that the sport is ruined because he doesn't know every single fighter and their f'n dramatic back-story?

MMA is just becoming a sport. These tards will catch on eventually.
7/9/14 9:34 AM
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EckY
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Such a pathetic cop out of an excuse.

Does he really think NZ fans were happy with the main event they got? both guys on losing streaks in different weight classes was custom tailored for NZ? I personally have a lot of NZ friends and a ton of them were massively disappointed when they saw what UFC was bringing for the first show.

It simply comes down to doing more cards that you have the star power/top talent to sustain them.
7/9/14 9:46 AM
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GrotesK
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dwhy83 - During the recent fan expo Q&A, Dana White was asked about the watered down cards. To paraphrase, he answered that those cards weren't for you, the hardcore fan, but for a locale that it was custom tailored for.

Hearing Dana's explanation, it became perfectly clear to me what the UFC is doing: They're scaling out rather than scaling up.

In the past, many UGers have suggested creating a "development league" with lesser known fighters working up to the big show. This is essentially what the UFC is doing in developing these locale-based markets. Unlike a "development league" that has qualitatively worse fighters and nothing of value to offer, which nobody would want to watch, these locale-based markets will sustain themselves by appealing to those locales.

The key here is that appealing to a locale is a good substitute for not having the best talent. It will provide viewership, like how Spain watches their local Liga Endesa basketball league, or the US watches Major League Soccer, even though those leagues don't have the best talent.

Within these locale-based markets, the UFC will bring in a lot of new talent with locale-based Ultimate Fighter competitions. They will enable lesser-known guys to gain experience, build their records, earn money, and gain a fanbase in their locales. Once they've found a star in a locale, who breaks out into the top 15, they'll feed into the main PPV cards with a paying fanbase behind them.

Right now the talent might be somewhat distributed to help grow these locale-based markets, but once they're established it will ultimately feed more talent into the PPV cards. And for you, the hardcore fan, all this locale-based content will be on Fight Pass. There will be a saturation of content and it will be great.

It's genius what they're doing and I can't wait to see how it plays out.
This worked in New Zealand with Dan Hooker. But not having our best talent Mark Hunt on the card was bit of a miss. Also having Australians on the card who were all boo'd during their walkouts seems like they didn't realise that Aus/NZ are different countries who have a rivalry. Phone Post 3.0
7/9/14 9:49 AM
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MMALOGIC
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EckY - Such a pathetic cop out of an excuse.

Does he really think NZ fans were happy with the main event they got? both guys on losing streaks in different weight classes was custom tailored for NZ? I personally have a lot of NZ friends and a ton of them were massively disappointed when they saw what UFC was bringing for the first show.

It simply comes down to doing more cards that you have the star power/top talent to sustain them.

seems to be working pretty well though...

 

7/9/14 10:28 AM
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RKing85
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I would just be happy with less fights on a card. No reason what so ever for 12-13 fights on a card.

10 is plenty.
7/9/14 10:37 AM
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rRooster
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It's not just there are more fights and you can't keep up. The problem is these fights are boring. Much more boring than regional fight cards. The reason? The UFC cuts you if you lose two in a row. The result is we get lay and pray and wall and stall. I would love to tune in to see guys I haven't heard of putting on an exciting fight. That is not the case though. I just see wrestling and it puts me to sleep. Phone Post 3.0
7/9/14 10:43 AM
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EckY
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MMALOGIC - 
EckY - Such a pathetic cop out of an excuse.

Does he really think NZ fans were happy with the main event they got? both guys on losing streaks in different weight classes was custom tailored for NZ? I personally have a lot of NZ friends and a ton of them were massively disappointed when they saw what UFC was bringing for the first show.

It simply comes down to doing more cards that you have the star power/top talent to sustain them.

seems to be working pretty well though...

 


Obviously there were more news stories and people talking about it, doesnt mean the main event wasnt a joke of a fight for a main event and that many people were not disappointed.

Fact is UFC are stretching themselves too thin, they have upped their card output but they dont have the amount of top talent and star power to sustain it, that is a fact confirmed buy the second cancellation of an entire card.

Throw some more graphs up, we all know what the deal here is though, guys on extended losing streaks should never be headlining any card.
7/9/14 10:52 AM
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Wriggling Grunion
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Is New Zealand all of a sudden some third world country, stuck in the 80s with no internet access or other modern forms of media?

New Zealanders know what mma is. Anyone who lives in the modern world and who has any interest whatsoever in combat sports already knows what mma is. Having an event in New Zealand with two guys on losing streaks and a bunch of dudes who should be in KOTC is not going to create new fans over there. How are bad fights supposed to create new fans?

7/9/14 10:53 AM
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EckY
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Intergalactic - 
EckY - Such a pathetic cop out of an excuse.

Does he really think NZ fans were happy with the main event they got? both guys on losing streaks in different weight classes was custom tailored for NZ? I personally have a lot of NZ friends and a ton of them were massively disappointed when they saw what UFC was bringing for the first show.

It simply comes down to doing more cards that you have the star power/top talent to sustain them.

A ton of people is like... 8-12 persons!

Unless your NZ friends number in the thousands, who share your opinion that no card is better than a card with no star power, I don't see how the UFC was wrong in deciding to do an event there.

They weren't wrong to hold an event there, they were wrong to hold an event headlined by guys on extended losing streaks were they had been brutally finished numerous times in a row. Also the amount doesn't really matter either as NZ UFC fans aren't some mysterious group, just think for yourself, if a card was brought to your city headlined by guys coming off numerous brutal KO losses you would be massively disappointed.

Basically they are wrong to up their card output when they don't have the amount of top talent/stars to sustain it, this is a fact that is being proven over and over.
7/9/14 10:55 AM
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smth416
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stonepony - 
Sloppy Single Leg - I might be the only one that enjoys the over saturation of MMA these days. I love knowing that there will be fights on every weekend, whether I will watch them or not.

Not the only one. The Jersey Shore watchers get confused and angry. They don't understand. They just don't understand how every single other major sport works.

They think that boxing fans watch all the boxing matches that ever happen. They think that soccer fans watch 650 matches every season.

They really just can't be bothered to think. They're spoiled and they like to cry.

two events have gotten canceled because they lost main events. That would be unthinkable in the past.

7/9/14 11:47 AM
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rRooster
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Intergalactic -
rRooster - It's not just there are more fights and you can't keep up. The problem is these fights are boring. Much more boring than regional fight cards. The reason? The UFC cuts you if you lose two in a row. The result is we get lay and pray and wall and stall. I would love to tune in to see guys I haven't heard of putting on an exciting fight. That is not the case though. I just see wrestling and it puts me to sleep. Phone Post 3.0

This is how you know people complain just for the sake of complaining. It's not 2010 anymore... this reasoning has been proven to be false on more than one occasion. I doubt you actually watch fights. A lot of fights on the prelims have been exciting lately. Far from "wall and stall" or "lay and pray".
You're right. I bought every ppv from about 2008 on. I stopped at 173 when not a single other person wanted to split the cost with me and the local bar stopped showing ppv's due to low attendance. I also miss the fights at 5am that I can only see if I pay $10 to watch them on the internet. I'll be missing 176 too because it was so watered down it was cancelled... Give me a break. It's not just complaining. The sport is in a massive decline. Take off the rose colored glasses. Phone Post 3.0
7/9/14 11:50 AM
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GaspareBJJ
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I understand what Dana is saying, actually makes sense...but why water down PPV cards? Phone Post 3.0
7/9/14 11:51 AM
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RyannVonDoom
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stonepony -
Sloppy Single Leg - 
stonepony - 
Sloppy Single Leg - I might be the only one that enjoys the over saturation of MMA these days. I love knowing that there will be fights on every weekend, whether I will watch them or not.

Not the only one. The Jersey Shore watchers get confused and angry. They don't understand. They just don't understand how every single other major sport works.

They think that boxing fans watch all the boxing matches that ever happen. They think that soccer fans watch 650 matches every season.

They really just can't be bothered to think. They're spoiled and they like to cry.

This exactly!

Imagine trying to name every NFL player? Jesus...

MMA is not "over-saturated" IMO. It's simply getting to the point where there are enough competitors that you can't follow all of them. There are enough events happening that you can't watch all of them. Fucking God forbid...

Imagine a person who tries to watch every single pro boxing event that happens. Imagine he tries to follow every pro boxer? There are about 20,000 PRO boxers world wide. Does that boxing fan bitch and cry like a little girl that the sport is ruined because he doesn't know every single fighter and their f'n dramatic back-story?

MMA is just becoming a sport. These tards will catch on eventually.
You dont need to name every nfl player ffs. People follow their favorite teams and there's competition for talent within the league. Its not rocket science but you and your ilk try to compare yourselves to the nfl when the ufc is hardly bigger than arena football. Phone Post 3.0
7/9/14 11:53 AM
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Proteus The Invincible
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I don't see how the UFC appealing to local markets is a sound strategy when said locals already have mixed martial arts events to attend. People are willing to put up with lacklustre fights as long as the competitors are of a high standard, i.e. international level, not local. Without the high standard of competition, the locals may as well just watch their own events, which tend to be far more action packed than what the UFC has been providing lately.
7/9/14 12:10 PM
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THERE WAS A GLITCH IN THE MATRiX
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stonepony - 
Sloppy Single Leg - 
stonepony - 
Sloppy Single Leg - I might be the only one that enjoys the over saturation of MMA these days. I love knowing that there will be fights on every weekend, whether I will watch them or not.

Not the only one. The Jersey Shore watchers get confused and angry. They don't understand. They just don't understand how every single other major sport works.

They think that boxing fans watch all the boxing matches that ever happen. They think that soccer fans watch 650 matches every season.

They really just can't be bothered to think. They're spoiled and they like to cry.

This exactly!

Imagine trying to name every NFL player? Jesus...

MMA is not "over-saturated" IMO. It's simply getting to the point where there are enough competitors that you can't follow all of them. There are enough events happening that you can't watch all of them. Fucking God forbid...

Imagine a person who tries to watch every single pro boxing event that happens. Imagine he tries to follow every pro boxer? There are about 20,000 PRO boxers world wide. Does that boxing fan bitch and cry like a little girl that the sport is ruined because he doesn't know every single fighter and their f'n dramatic back-story?

MMA is just becoming a sport. These tards will catch on eventually.

it is 100% oversaturated! you say dont watch every fight then, well they spread all the good fighters out on so many cards you have to watch them all just to watch the best top 10 guys in each class. other sports other than boxing have teams that most cheeer for. there are no teams in mma. just top 10 or not top 10. and they spread the top 10 out so much it ridiculous. nowadays if a decent fight is made (Mousasi/Munoz, Cung/bisping, Nelson/Nog, etc etc and entire event is built around it with a bunch of no name filler on the undercards.

and you Jersey Shore fans are a main reason this sport has issues. TUF is an MTV drama reality TV show that brings in the lowest form of fans out there. these fans dont really care for top fighters and the best vs the best, the only care about another youtube KO highlight to say man that was fukin awesome. then get excited to see fighters get drunk and piss in each others beds. and we have 1000's of fans who became fans like this. and these are also the ones defending waterd down 1 decent fight card BS, because all they care about is another fight.
7/9/14 12:16 PM
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MMALOGIC
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EckY - 
Intergalactic - 
EckY - Such a pathetic cop out of an excuse.

Does he really think NZ fans were happy with the main event they got? both guys on losing streaks in different weight classes was custom tailored for NZ? I personally have a lot of NZ friends and a ton of them were massively disappointed when they saw what UFC was bringing for the first show.

It simply comes down to doing more cards that you have the star power/top talent to sustain them.

A ton of people is like... 8-12 persons!

Unless your NZ friends number in the thousands, who share your opinion that no card is better than a card with no star power, I don't see how the UFC was wrong in deciding to do an event there.

They weren't wrong to hold an event there, they were wrong to hold an event headlined by guys on extended losing streaks were they had been brutally finished numerous times in a row. Also the amount doesn't really matter either as NZ UFC fans aren't some mysterious group, just think for yourself, if a card was brought to your city headlined by guys coming off numerous brutal KO losses you would be massively disappointed.

Basically they are wrong to up their card output when they don't have the amount of top talent/stars to sustain it, this is a fact that is being proven over and over.

but you get to that by having events... you have an event in new zealand... there's buzz, you create interest, awareness, people start training, gyms pop up and that's how you get the talent.

Look at the talent on UFC 1... UFC new zealand was an improvement. 

7/9/14 12:24 PM
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EckY
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MMALOGIC - 
EckY - 
Intergalactic - 
EckY - Such a pathetic cop out of an excuse.

Does he really think NZ fans were happy with the main event they got? both guys on losing streaks in different weight classes was custom tailored for NZ? I personally have a lot of NZ friends and a ton of them were massively disappointed when they saw what UFC was bringing for the first show.

It simply comes down to doing more cards that you have the star power/top talent to sustain them.

A ton of people is like... 8-12 persons!

Unless your NZ friends number in the thousands, who share your opinion that no card is better than a card with no star power, I don't see how the UFC was wrong in deciding to do an event there.

They weren't wrong to hold an event there, they were wrong to hold an event headlined by guys on extended losing streaks were they had been brutally finished numerous times in a row. Also the amount doesn't really matter either as NZ UFC fans aren't some mysterious group, just think for yourself, if a card was brought to your city headlined by guys coming off numerous brutal KO losses you would be massively disappointed.

Basically they are wrong to up their card output when they don't have the amount of top talent/stars to sustain it, this is a fact that is being proven over and over.

but you get to that by having events... you have an event in new zealand... there's buzz, you create interest, awareness, people start training, gyms pop up and that's how you get the talent.

Look at the talent on UFC 1... UFC new zealand was an improvement. 


So why not just by buy out KOTC stick to UFC logo on it and send those guys to all these international locations? Surely that would create buzz and get everyone training to increase the talent level down the line?

The fact is they don't have the top talent and star power to sustain the increase in card output, if they went to these international locations with bigger main cards, there would be bigger buzz, awareness and interest.

Over-saturation is directly responsible for 176 being cancelled.
7/9/14 12:33 PM
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stonepony
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"The fact is they don't have the top talent and star power to sustain the increase in card output"

Curious to know where you got that "fact" from EckY. Zuffa spends a ton of money doing market research. You know something they don't?

7/9/14 12:40 PM
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EckY
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stonepony - "The fact is they don't have the top talent and star power to sustain the increase in card output"

Curious to know where you got that "fact" from EckY. Zuffa spends a ton of money doing market research. You know something they don't?


I got that fact from UFC 176 being cancelled, keep up.
7/9/14 12:45 PM
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NutJobJim
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I'm really glad that they are putting on more cards in emerging markets and trying to grow the sport globally...
The issue is when they use top 10 guys to headline these cards as these fights could instead be used to stack PPV.

Keep the cards in China etc. but don't have someone like Bisping headline it. Keep it to local talent only and keep the likes of Bisping and Woodley for PPV cards.

Sure the China cards would be incredibly weak then but those cards are for the local markets anyway and they should he grateful for what they're getting in the first place. Phone Post 3.0
7/9/14 12:57 PM
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Surly
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GaspareBJJ - I understand what Dana is saying, actually makes sense...but why water down PPV cards? Phone Post 3.0
I agree, what Dana said makes sense for the FS1 and Fight Pass cards. The problem is, for every one of these cards they need to steal a fight or two from a PPV card. Phone Post 3.0

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