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OtherGround Forums >> Pioneer Gay Activist Gertrude Stein: Genius, Hero


7/20/14 2:46 PM
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FastAndBulbous
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Edited: 07/20/14 2:51 PM
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I've been studying gay rights history in an effort to better understand the gay struggle, and to become a better person.

I've been criticized, rightly so, for my comments here suggesting that gay relationships aren't based on love, and that gay people can't really be happy with that lifestyIe.

So I've been reading some Gertrude Stein, who lived her life the way she wanted and didn't care what society thought or what she was "supposed to do". She referred to herself as "the man" in her sexual relationship with Alice B. Toklas, and Ernest Hemingway observed that she fulfilled the role admirably (Except that she never got her wife pregnant).

In fact, she is credited with coining the term "gay" to refer to homosexuals! So not only was she a brilliant artist, brave social warrior, and universal genius, she could quite rightly be called the Father of the Gay Movement in our modern times.

I couldn't help but realize how wrong I've been, when I read this exchange between Gertrude Stein and Ernest Hemingway:

"You know nothing about any of this, really, Hemingway," she said. "You've met known criminals and sick people and vicious people. The main thing is that the act male homosexuals commit is ugly and repugnant and afterwards they are disgusted with themselves. They drink and take drugs, to palliate this, but they are disgusted with the act and they are always changing partners and cannot be really happy."

"I see."

"In women it is the opposite. They do nothing that they are disgusted by and nothing that is repulsive and afterwards they are happy and they can lead happy lives together."

"I see," I said. "But what about so and so?"

"She's vicious," Miss Stein said. "She's truly vicious, so she can never be happy except with new people. She corrupts people."

"I understand."

"You're sure you understand?"


I understand now, Miss Stein. Thank you. I had falsely believed that gay people can't find happiness, that they jumped from partner to partner seeking cheap thrills, and that they abused alcohol and drugs as a necessary part of their lifestyIe. But now I realize I was wrong, and Gertrude Stein has the truth of it: all of those things apply only to the gay men. Well, and some of the gay women too, but that's it!

I guess sometimes it takes a real genius to explain things in a way that can get through my thick skull.

So next time you find yourself about to say some things like that, just remember! The only people who say those things are hateful, ignorant, inbred, racist, brainwashed bigots, or either they're famous gay activists.
7/20/14 3:40 PM
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SnapLocally
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7/20/14 3:45 PM
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RIPTJR_QuinTheEskimo
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FastAndBulbous - I've been studying gay rights history in an effort to better understand the gay struggle, and to become a better person.

I've been criticized, rightly so, for my comments here suggesting that gay relationships aren't based on love, and that gay people can't really be happy with that lifestyIe.

So I've been reading some Gertrude Stein, who lived her life the way she wanted and didn't care what society thought or what she was "supposed to do". She referred to herself as "the man" in her sexual relationship with Alice B. Toklas, and Ernest Hemingway observed that she fulfilled the role admirably (Except that she never got her wife pregnant).

In fact, she is credited with coining the term "gay" to refer to homosexuals! So not only was she a brilliant artist, brave social warrior, and universal genius, she could quite rightly be called the Father of the Gay Movement in our modern times.

I couldn't help but realize how wrong I've been, when I read this exchange between Gertrude Stein and Ernest Hemingway:

"You know nothing about any of this, really, Hemingway," she said. "You've met known criminals and sick people and vicious people. The main thing is that the act male homosexuals commit is ugly and repugnant and afterwards they are disgusted with themselves. They drink and take drugs, to palliate this, but they are disgusted with the act and they are always changing partners and cannot be really happy."

"I see."

"In women it is the opposite. They do nothing that they are disgusted by and nothing that is repulsive and afterwards they are happy and they can lead happy lives together."

"I see," I said. "But what about so and so?"

"She's vicious," Miss Stein said. "She's truly vicious, so she can never be happy except with new people. She corrupts people."

"I understand."

"You're sure you understand?"


I understand now, Miss Stein. Thank you. I had falsely believed that gay people can't find happiness, that they jumped from partner to partner seeking cheap thrills, and that they abused alcohol and drugs as a necessary part of their lifestyIe. But now I realize I was wrong, and Gertrude Stein has the truth of it: all of those things apply only to the gay men. Well, and some of the gay women too, but that's it!

I guess sometimes it takes a real genius to explain things in a way that can get through my thick skull.

So next time you find yourself about to say some things like that, just remember! The only people who say those things are hateful, ignorant, inbred, racist, brainwashed bigots, or either they're famous gay activists.
Phone Post 3.0
7/20/14 3:51 PM
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FastAndBulbous
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Well, it only took 3 replies for a hateful anti-gay slur to be used in a thread celebrating a famous gay rights pioneer. It goes to show what kind of world we live in.
7/20/14 3:52 PM
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HereWeAre
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FastAndBulbous - I've been studying gay rights history in an effort to better understand the gay struggle, and to become a better person.

I've been criticized, rightly so, for my comments here suggesting that gay relationships aren't based on love, and that gay people can't really be happy with that lifestyIe.

So I've been reading some Gertrude Stein, who lived her life the way she wanted and didn't care what society thought or what she was "supposed to do". She referred to herself as "the man" in her sexual relationship with Alice B. Toklas, and Ernest Hemingway observed that she fulfilled the role admirably (Except that she never got her wife pregnant).

In fact, she is credited with coining the term "gay" to refer to homosexuals! So not only was she a brilliant artist, brave social warrior, and universal genius, she could quite rightly be called the Father of the Gay Movement in our modern times.

I couldn't help but realize how wrong I've been, when I read this exchange between Gertrude Stein and Ernest Hemingway:

"You know nothing about any of this, really, Hemingway," she said. "You've met known criminals and sick people and vicious people. The main thing is that the act male homosexuals commit is ugly and repugnant and afterwards they are disgusted with themselves. They drink and take drugs, to palliate this, but they are disgusted with the act and they are always changing partners and cannot be really happy."

"I see."

"In women it is the opposite. They do nothing that they are disgusted by and nothing that is repulsive and afterwards they are happy and they can lead happy lives together."

"I see," I said. "But what about so and so?"

"She's vicious," Miss Stein said. "She's truly vicious, so she can never be happy except with new people. She corrupts people."

"I understand."

"You're sure you understand?"


I understand now, Miss Stein. Thank you. I had falsely believed that gay people can't find happiness, that they jumped from partner to partner seeking cheap thrills, and that they abused alcohol and drugs as a necessary part of their lifestyIe. But now I realize I was wrong, and Gertrude Stein has the truth of it: all of those things apply only to the gay men. Well, and some of the gay women too, but that's it!

I guess sometimes it takes a real genius to explain things in a way that can get through my thick skull.

So next time you find yourself about to say some things like that, just remember! The only people who say those things are hateful, ignorant, inbred, racist, brainwashed bigots, or either they're famous gay activists.
You devote a strange amount of time to this. Phone Post 3.0
7/20/14 3:53 PM
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Barry Soetoro Jr
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Gay gay gay gay gay gay gay gay gay gay gay gay gay ass gay!

Whew, that makes me feel so progressive and smart.
7/20/14 3:56 PM
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Cutty McButts
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FastAndBulbous - Well, it only took 3 replies for a hateful anti-gay slur to be used in a thread celebrating a famous gay rights pioneer. It goes to show what kind of world we live in.
I think he meant it to be ironic, since he's a vocal advocate for getting pounded in the ass with a rubber phallus. Phone Post 3.0
7/20/14 3:57 PM
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FastAndBulbous
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Clearly these misogynists can't stand for a strong intelligent woman's voice to be heard.
7/20/14 4:16 PM
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Slowshot
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What of monogamous gays?
7/20/14 4:36 PM
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Lite
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You read that where? It sounds written by Hemingway, maybe in Moveable Feast, where he also writes how he had to cheer up Fitzgerald because Fitzgerald had a small dick.
7/20/14 5:24 PM
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FastAndBulbous
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Are you saying Hemingway would lie and make up a fake conversation with Gertrude Stein, the woman who was the godparent of his child?
7/20/14 5:38 PM
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FastAndBulbous
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If Gertrude Stein didn't really think that way, I'm sure there would be plenty of quotes out there where she says differently. She was a writer, after all, and an outspoken gay rights activist.

Do you have any quotes that contradict what I quoted?
7/20/14 5:43 PM
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Edited: 07/20/14 5:45 PM
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Slowshot - What of monogamous gays?

According to Gertrude Stein, being a gay man means you're not monogamous.

The best available modern statistics back her up, since the estimated number of monogamous gay men is less than the combined number of gay men who are impotent, have social anxiety and never leave the house, and the ones who are terminally ill.

So you might think that the only monogamous gay men are the ones who physically aren't able to sleep around, but the numbers indicate that even some of the ones who are impotent, terminally ill, and/or never leave the house, are still having sexual encounters with multiple partners, in significant percentages.
7/20/14 5:48 PM
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Slowshot
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I mean, i can't speak for gertrude stein, but I can speak for my uncle, who is gay, and has been in a monogamous relationship with the same guy for like 8 years.

I assume he and Gabe can both get it up, but I could be wrong.
7/20/14 5:58 PM
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FastAndBulbous
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Good for them for beating the odds!
7/20/14 6:00 PM
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Slowshot
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Also, I'm curious what you're defining as monogamous. Like, how long "counts"? A month? A year? 3 years?
7/20/14 6:10 PM
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MountainMedic
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Slowshot - Also, I'm curious what you're defining as monogamous. Like, how long "counts"? A month? A year? 3 years?
Yeah

In the long run I have known exactly zero male couples to stay together. The ones I've known with longterm relationships have had "open" arrangements and even they fall apart eventually.

But I don't think its, as gerty put it, that they are disgusted with the act. Quite the opposite actually. It's because they are men and want to fuck everything that moves and exist in a subculture that says its normal. Some of those dude are putting up Wilt Chamberlain numbers. Phone Post 3.0
7/20/14 6:15 PM
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FastAndBulbous
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Slowshot - Also, I'm curious what you're defining as monogamous. Like, how long "counts"? A month? A year? 3 years?

However long they've been in the relationship?

But you might be surprised that the gay definition is different from the straight definition. Gay relationships aren't the same as straight relationships. They don't want normal marriages, because the entire concept of marriage only applies to straight couples.


Why I Never Want To Be Just Like Straight People (And Neither Should You)

"our queerness is what makes us special. You, by your very existence as a queer person, exist in opposition to what governments and religions and cultures have told us is necessary and desirable and true.

If everything we've been fighting for, if all the death and shame and resilience and rebirth, if all our stories and goodbyes and secrets have only been so that now, at this point in our movement, in history, we can fit into straight society as it exists today, I would rather be dead."
7/20/14 6:22 PM
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Slowshot
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FastAndBulbous - 
Slowshot - Also, I'm curious what you're defining as monogamous. Like, how long "counts"? A month? A year? 3 years?

However long they've been in the relationship?

But you might be surprised that the gay definition is different from the straight definition. Gay relationships aren't the same as straight relationships. They don't want normal marriages, because the entire concept of marriage only applies to straight couples.


Why I Never Want To Be Just Like Straight People (And Neither Should You)

"our queerness is what makes us special. You, by your very existence as a queer person, exist in opposition to what governments and religions and cultures have told us is necessary and desirable and true.

If everything we've been fighting for, if all the death and shame and resilience and rebirth, if all our stories and goodbyes and secrets have only been so that now, at this point in our movement, in history, we can fit into straight society as it exists today, I would rather be dead."

Well, that's one datapoint.

Another is (again) my uncle, who is thinking about asking Gabe to marry him.

Anecdotal, I know, but more compelling to me than some random opinion piece from huffington post.
7/20/14 6:24 PM
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FastAndBulbous
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lol, remember when Musashi had to change flights in North Carolina, and he said waiting in the airport he could sense racism everywhere?

And now he's here with his hateful anti-gay slurs, calling me a faggot because I'm gay and I want to discuss the issues that affect the gay community. Some people are sick and sad.

It's bad enough feeling the hatred from beneath the plane every time I fly over North Carolina, and now I even have to hear it on the OG when I should be among understanding friends.
7/20/14 6:28 PM
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FastAndBulbous
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What fact, that I'm gay because I'm from the south, and you called me a faggot because I'm gay?
7/20/14 6:28 PM
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FastAndBulbous
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Slowshot - Another is (again) my uncle, who is thinking about asking Gabe to marry him.


Why?
7/20/14 6:37 PM
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MountainMedic
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FastAndBulbous -
Slowshot - Another is (again) my uncle, who is thinking about asking Gabe to marry him.


Why?
Puttin the penis on a pedastool Phone Post 3.0
7/20/14 6:37 PM
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Slowshot
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FastAndBulbous - 
Slowshot - Another is (again) my uncle, who is thinking about asking Gabe to marry him.


Why?

Because they love each other, and they want to make their relationship official in front of friends and family?
7/20/14 6:38 PM
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FastAndBulbous
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Edited: 07/20/14 6:38 PM
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Musashi - Gosh no. I simply posted some data about marriage. Specifically, more southern males are suspected of homosexual behavior by their own wives than any other males in the country. I found that curious.


Are you from the south? Because you're displaying an unhealthy obsession with me and demanding my attention, insulting me so I'll notice you, and then whining when I don't answer you enough.

You even stalked me to the UG when I made a thread about Bas Rutten, with dozens of people saying positive things about Bas Rutten, and you were the only one who made some bitchy passive-aggressive comment about how Bas hardly ever fought "real" fights. Were you worried that I would like Bas more than I like you? Keep your weird sexual frustration with me off my threads, if you can find a way to resist.

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