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OtherGround Forums >> Pioneer Gay Activist Gertrude Stein: Genius, Hero


7/20/14 6:38 PM
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Slowshot
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(and, I should add, commit to its permanence)
7/20/14 6:51 PM
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FastAndBulbous
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Edited: 07/20/14 6:55 PM
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Slowshot - 
FastAndBulbous - 
Slowshot - Another is (again) my uncle, who is thinking about asking Gabe to marry him.


Why?

Because they love each other, and they want to make their relationship official in front of friends and family?

...and make it permanent, because they're still keeping their options open after 8 years together.

Well, I don't think that's what marriage is for. Sure, people use it that way, but only because they think they're doing what everyone else does.

They love each other and want their friends and family to know? Just because you "love" someone, which has vastly different meanings to different people, that doesn't mean you should give them half your property and the option to leave you and force you to give them a percentage of your earnings every month.

Is one of them going to swear to obey the other one? Is one of them going to swear to protect the other one?

Is one of them weak and needs to be protected from being robbed and raped by other men? Is one of them unable to do all the work men do, and needs to be provided for by the other one? Those are some of the reasons marriage exists.

Another reason is so when the woman gets pregnant, the man who got her pregnant has the responsibility of taking care of her and raising the child, instead of her parents having to do it. That's why the father gives his daughter to her husband in the wedding ceremony.

Another reason is so the man will know his wife's child is his own, and so the woman will know the man isn't getting other women pregnant and spending his money on them instead of her. That's part of why they make it official, announce it, and invite people to witness the wedding. After that, nobody has any excuse for trying to make babies with one of the people who is now officially off-limits.

Do any of those reasons apply to 2 men, or are they just mimicking what straight people do without understanding why?
7/20/14 6:55 PM
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FastAndBulbous
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Musashi - 
FastAndBulbous - ...you're displaying an unhealthy obsession with me and demanding my attention... You even stalked me... Were you worried that I would like Bas more than I like you? Keep your weird sexual frustration with me off my threads, if you can find a way to resist.

Sorry. I didn't mean to strike a nerve.

So, you couldn't resist.

How many of your threads have I posted on, ever? None?

And how many of my threads have you posted on, this week? 5 different threads?

And you always show up to talk about me having sex with men.

That link about psychological projection is supposed to be informative, but you're using it as a how-to guide.
7/20/14 7:33 PM
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Slowshot
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FastAndBulbous - 
Slowshot - 
FastAndBulbous - 
Slowshot - Another is (again) my uncle, who is thinking about asking Gabe to marry him.


Why?

Because they love each other, and they want to make their relationship official in front of friends and family?

...and make it permanent, because they're still keeping their options open after 8 years together.

Well, I don't think that's what marriage is for. Sure, people use it that way, but only because they think they're doing what everyone else does.

They love each other and want their friends and family to know? Just because you "love" someone, which has vastly different meanings to different people, that doesn't mean you should give them half your property and the option to leave you and force you to give them a percentage of your earnings every month.

Is one of them going to swear to obey the other one? Is one of them going to swear to protect the other one?

Is one of them weak and needs to be protected from being robbed and raped by other men? Is one of them unable to do all the work men do, and needs to be provided for by the other one? Those are some of the reasons marriage exists.

Another reason is so when the woman gets pregnant, the man who got her pregnant has the responsibility of taking care of her and raising the child, instead of her parents having to do it. That's why the father gives his daughter to her husband in the wedding ceremony.

Another reason is so the man will know his wife's child is his own, and so the woman will know the man isn't getting other women pregnant and spending his money on them instead of her. That's part of why they make it official, announce it, and invite people to witness the wedding. After that, nobody has any excuse for trying to make babies with one of the people who is now officially off-limits.

Do any of those reasons apply to 2 men, or are they just mimicking what straight people do without understanding why?

So, I'll address these in order, because there's a lot going on there.

1) What do you mean they're still keeping their options open?

2) You are entitled to your opinion of what marriage is for. So are they. So am I. We may not agree, and that's fine.

3) What if they want to give each other half of each others property. No, they don't have to, but then, nobody does. Nobody is FORCED to get married, but people choose to, no?

4)I'm not sure. I know nobody swore to obey anybody else when I was married.

5) See #2.

6)Will not be an issue.

7)Will not be an issue.
7/20/14 8:28 PM
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FastAndBulbous
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1) What do you mean they're still keeping their options open?


You said they would get married to commit to the permanence of their relationship. If they haven't done that after 8 years, then they must be keeping their options open.
7/20/14 8:32 PM
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Slowshot
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An alternative explanation would be that getting married is a more realistic and socially accepted option than it was 8 years ago.

Or, maybe you're right, and they weren't sure. Either way, is there anything wrong with it?
7/20/14 8:44 PM
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FastAndBulbous
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Musashi - In the course of a YEAR, I posted on a total of 3 threads that you created. Three.


No. In the past 4 days. Not only threads I created, but also a thread someone else made with my name in the title. And you're still posting in my thread right now.

And that's just with your main screen name.

Are you researching the subject or are you just "curious"?


You're saying that posting a lot on a certain type of thread means you have a sexual fixation with the subject.

You post a lot in threads about me.

Your words, not mine.
7/20/14 8:51 PM
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FastAndBulbous
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Slowshot - An alternative explanation would be that getting married is a more realistic and socially accepted option than it was 8 years ago.

Or, maybe you're right, and they weren't sure. Either way, is there anything wrong with it?

No, let them pretend, that's fine.

Just like a child or retarded person that you would allow to dress up like a policeman because he thinks he's actually a policeman just like the real policemen he sees.

"Look at us, we're married just like you!"

"Yes you are! You're very good at being married, aren't you!"

The only problem is when other children start believing it too.

Then you have to talk to a bunch of angry parents bitching you out for being hateful, because you told your child that their child wasn't really a policeman.
7/20/14 9:07 PM
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Slowshot
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FastAndBulbous - 
Slowshot - An alternative explanation would be that getting married is a more realistic and socially accepted option than it was 8 years ago.

Or, maybe you're right, and they weren't sure. Either way, is there anything wrong with it?

No, let them pretend, that's fine.

Just like a child or retarded person that you would allow to dress up like a policeman because he thinks he's actually a policeman just like the real policemen he sees.

"Look at us, we're married just like you!"

"Yes you are! You're very good at being married, aren't you!"

The only problem is when other children start believing it too.

Then you have to talk to a bunch of angry parents bitching you out for being hateful, because you told your child that their child wasn't really a policeman.

I have to say, it's pretty insulting to compare the reasoning ability of a grown man to that of a child or retarded person.

You seem to have a certain idea of what the purpose of a marriage is, which is fine. You are free to get married for whatever purpose you like. What I don't get is your unwillingness to see that other, reasonable people might have a different idea of what the purpose of a marriage is.
7/20/14 9:14 PM
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RIPTJR_QuinTheEskimo
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Slowshot -
FastAndBulbous - 
Slowshot - An alternative explanation would be that getting married is a more realistic and socially accepted option than it was 8 years ago.

Or, maybe you're right, and they weren't sure. Either way, is there anything wrong with it?

No, let them pretend, that's fine.

Just like a child or retarded person that you would allow to dress up like a policeman because he thinks he's actually a policeman just like the real policemen he sees.

"Look at us, we're married just like you!"

"Yes you are! You're very good at being married, aren't you!"

The only problem is when other children start believing it too.

Then you have to talk to a bunch of angry parents bitching you out for being hateful, because you told your child that their child wasn't really a policeman.

I have to say, it's pretty insulting to compare the reasoning ability of a grown man to that of a child or retarded person.

You seem to have a certain idea of what the purpose of a marriage is, which is fine. You are free to get married for whatever purpose you like. What I don't get is your unwillingness to see that other, reasonable people might have a different idea of what the purpose of a marriage is.
If the purpose is different amd the act is different why call them the same thing? Phone Post 3.0
7/20/14 9:34 PM
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Adam_RetreatHell
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Fag Phone Post 3.0
7/20/14 9:40 PM
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Slowshot
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RIPTJR_QuinTheEskimo - 
Slowshot -
FastAndBulbous - 
Slowshot - An alternative explanation would be that getting married is a more realistic and socially accepted option than it was 8 years ago.

Or, maybe you're right, and they weren't sure. Either way, is there anything wrong with it?

No, let them pretend, that's fine.

Just like a child or retarded person that you would allow to dress up like a policeman because he thinks he's actually a policeman just like the real policemen he sees.

"Look at us, we're married just like you!"

"Yes you are! You're very good at being married, aren't you!"

The only problem is when other children start believing it too.

Then you have to talk to a bunch of angry parents bitching you out for being hateful, because you told your child that their child wasn't really a policeman.

I have to say, it's pretty insulting to compare the reasoning ability of a grown man to that of a child or retarded person.

You seem to have a certain idea of what the purpose of a marriage is, which is fine. You are free to get married for whatever purpose you like. What I don't get is your unwillingness to see that other, reasonable people might have a different idea of what the purpose of a marriage is.
If the purpose is different amd the act is different why call them the same thing? Phone Post 3.0

It's not that the purpose is different, it's that people disagree on the purpose.

I'm straight. I'm married. I disagree with FAB about what the purpose of marriage is. For straight people. Should I not get to call my marriage a marriage because I disagree with him?
7/20/14 10:22 PM
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FastAndBulbous
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Slowshot - I have to say, it's pretty insulting to compare the reasoning ability of a grown man to that of a child or retarded person.


It does apply to many adults, in different ways.

I've been watching a lot of The Room by Tommy Wiseau, which is known as one of the worst movies ever made. No reasonable person could watch 5 minutes of it without wondering how the hell such a weird movie could get made, and the answer is that nobody told this guy that his writing sucks, his acting sucks, his directing sucks, and he had no idea what he was doing. So he spent 6 million dollars of his own money, it took in $1800 at the box office, and now he gets his feelings hurt when people say it's a bad movie. He still doesn't understand.

It's hard to find the right balance between humoring people to spare their feelings, and not going too far just to go along with everyone's whims.

The problem with always pretending to agree is that you end up enabling people to continue further down the path of self-destructive behavior.

I have met a lot of gay people, and they are not just normal men who happen to be attracted to women. I can pretend that just like everyone else, just smile and nod, but no amount of pretending will make them normal. The average young gay man is a bimbo. Shallow, vain, catty, with mostly superficial interests; insecure, emotionally stunted, and delusional.

It's not really their fault, and I like to compare it to fat people. They probably could change, with help and lots of effort, but most of them will never change. So they are what they are, and there's not much use trying to change them. But that doesn't mean the rest of us have to accept whatever they say, or teach our children that being fat is just as good as being fit.

So we let them pretend they're just like us, but it's important for our own sake that we don't start believing it ourselves.
7/20/14 10:30 PM
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CavemanDave
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The best part is that Mrs Stein is backwards in her assessment of homosexual relationships.

Gay men experience the lowest reported rate of domestic violence. Lesbian relationships experience the highest rates of domestic violence.

I can tell you which group looks like the healthier relationship. Phone Post 3.0
7/20/14 10:55 PM
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CavemanDave
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Musashi -
CavemanDave - The best part is that Mrs Stein is backwards in her assessment of homosexual relationships.

Gay men experience the lowest reported rate of domestic violence. Lesbian relationships experience the highest rates of domestic violence.

I can tell you which group looks like the healthier relationship. Phone Post 3.0

Not to mention that gay males have the lowest incidence of uterine cancer of any demographic group. Food for thought!
Not to mention the relationship completely dodges the exorbitant cost of feminine napkins.

Talk about privileged... Phone Post 3.0
7/20/14 10:55 PM
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RIPTJR_QuinTheEskimo
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Slowshot -
RIPTJR_QuinTheEskimo - 
Slowshot -
FastAndBulbous - 
Slowshot - An alternative explanation would be that getting married is a more realistic and socially accepted option than it was 8 years ago.

Or, maybe you're right, and they weren't sure. Either way, is there anything wrong with it?

No, let them pretend, that's fine.

Just like a child or retarded person that you would allow to dress up like a policeman because he thinks he's actually a policeman just like the real policemen he sees.

"Look at us, we're married just like you!"

"Yes you are! You're very good at being married, aren't you!"

The only problem is when other children start believing it too.

Then you have to talk to a bunch of angry parents bitching you out for being hateful, because you told your child that their child wasn't really a policeman.

I have to say, it's pretty insulting to compare the reasoning ability of a grown man to that of a child or retarded person.

You seem to have a certain idea of what the purpose of a marriage is, which is fine. You are free to get married for whatever purpose you like. What I don't get is your unwillingness to see that other, reasonable people might have a different idea of what the purpose of a marriage is.
If the purpose is different amd the act is different why call them the same thing? Phone Post 3.0

It's not that the purpose is different, it's that people disagree on the purpose.

I'm straight. I'm married. I disagree with FAB about what the purpose of marriage is. For straight people. Should I not get to call my marriage a marriage because I disagree with him?
Given the decline of succesful marriages compared to a hundred years ago that idea does make sense. Why sully the good name of marriage with ideals that destroy it? Phone Post 3.0
7/20/14 11:53 PM
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Slowshot
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RIPTJR_QuinTheEskimo - 
Slowshot -
RIPTJR_QuinTheEskimo - 
Slowshot -
FastAndBulbous - 
Slowshot - An alternative explanation would be that getting married is a more realistic and socially accepted option than it was 8 years ago.

Or, maybe you're right, and they weren't sure. Either way, is there anything wrong with it?

No, let them pretend, that's fine.

Just like a child or retarded person that you would allow to dress up like a policeman because he thinks he's actually a policeman just like the real policemen he sees.

"Look at us, we're married just like you!"

"Yes you are! You're very good at being married, aren't you!"

The only problem is when other children start believing it too.

Then you have to talk to a bunch of angry parents bitching you out for being hateful, because you told your child that their child wasn't really a policeman.

I have to say, it's pretty insulting to compare the reasoning ability of a grown man to that of a child or retarded person.

You seem to have a certain idea of what the purpose of a marriage is, which is fine. You are free to get married for whatever purpose you like. What I don't get is your unwillingness to see that other, reasonable people might have a different idea of what the purpose of a marriage is.
If the purpose is different amd the act is different why call them the same thing? Phone Post 3.0

It's not that the purpose is different, it's that people disagree on the purpose.

I'm straight. I'm married. I disagree with FAB about what the purpose of marriage is. For straight people. Should I not get to call my marriage a marriage because I disagree with him?
Given the decline of succesful marriages compared to a hundred years ago that idea does make sense. Why sully the good name of marriage with ideals that destroy it? Phone Post 3.0

I'm not 100 percent sure I undestand your post. Would you clarify?


(ftr, I appreciate the polite back adn forth we're having :) )
7/21/14 12:35 AM
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tenchu
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Have any pioneer incest activists been recognized yet?
7/21/14 12:41 AM
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SoccerkickrevivaL
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FastAndBulbous - Well, it only took 3 replies for a hateful anti-gay slur to be used in a thread celebrating a famous gay rights pioneer. It goes to show what kind of world we live in.

Get over yourself, this is the fucking OG, you cocksmith. Go cry somewhere else.
7/21/14 12:47 AM
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SoccerkickrevivaL
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Slowshot - 
RIPTJR_QuinTheEskimo - 
Slowshot -
RIPTJR_QuinTheEskimo - 
Slowshot -
FastAndBulbous - 
Slowshot - An alternative explanation would be that getting married is a more realistic and socially accepted option than it was 8 years ago.

Or, maybe you're right, and they weren't sure. Either way, is there anything wrong with it?

No, let them pretend, that's fine.

Just like a child or retarded person that you would allow to dress up like a policeman because he thinks he's actually a policeman just like the real policemen he sees.

"Look at us, we're married just like you!"

"Yes you are! You're very good at being married, aren't you!"

The only problem is when other children start believing it too.

Then you have to talk to a bunch of angry parents bitching you out for being hateful, because you told your child that their child wasn't really a policeman.

I have to say, it's pretty insulting to compare the reasoning ability of a grown man to that of a child or retarded person.

You seem to have a certain idea of what the purpose of a marriage is, which is fine. You are free to get married for whatever purpose you like. What I don't get is your unwillingness to see that other, reasonable people might have a different idea of what the purpose of a marriage is.
If the purpose is different amd the act is different why call them the same thing? Phone Post 3.0

It's not that the purpose is different, it's that people disagree on the purpose.

I'm straight. I'm married. I disagree with FAB about what the purpose of marriage is. For straight people. Should I not get to call my marriage a marriage because I disagree with him?
Given the decline of succesful marriages compared to a hundred years ago that idea does make sense. Why sully the good name of marriage with ideals that destroy it? Phone Post 3.0

I'm not 100 percent sure I undestand your post. Would you clarify?


(ftr, I appreciate the polite back adn forth we're having :) )

"Given the decline of succesful marriages compared to a hundred years ago that idea does make sense."

...yeah, if I could beat the fuck out of my wife and kids I am sure she'd submit too. Jesus, you people are dumb. The reason divorce has increased is because we gave women RIGHTS. Rights that everyone should have, whether it to be married or not. To love or not. To vote or not. Some of you idiots are so dense it hurts my fucking brain. Good god.
7/21/14 6:42 AM
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RIPTJR_QuinTheEskimo
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Slowshot -
RIPTJR_QuinTheEskimo - 
Slowshot -
RIPTJR_QuinTheEskimo - 
Slowshot -
FastAndBulbous - 
Slowshot - An alternative explanation would be that getting married is a more realistic and socially accepted option than it was 8 years ago.

Or, maybe you're right, and they weren't sure. Either way, is there anything wrong with it?

No, let them pretend, that's fine.

Just like a child or retarded person that you would allow to dress up like a policeman because he thinks he's actually a policeman just like the real policemen he sees.

"Look at us, we're married just like you!"

"Yes you are! You're very good at being married, aren't you!"

The only problem is when other children start believing it too.

Then you have to talk to a bunch of angry parents bitching you out for being hateful, because you told your child that their child wasn't really a policeman.

I have to say, it's pretty insulting to compare the reasoning ability of a grown man to that of a child or retarded person.

You seem to have a certain idea of what the purpose of a marriage is, which is fine. You are free to get married for whatever purpose you like. What I don't get is your unwillingness to see that other, reasonable people might have a different idea of what the purpose of a marriage is.
If the purpose is different amd the act is different why call them the same thing? Phone Post 3.0

It's not that the purpose is different, it's that people disagree on the purpose.

I'm straight. I'm married. I disagree with FAB about what the purpose of marriage is. For straight people. Should I not get to call my marriage a marriage because I disagree with him?
Given the decline of succesful marriages compared to a hundred years ago that idea does make sense. Why sully the good name of marriage with ideals that destroy it? Phone Post 3.0

I'm not 100 percent sure I undestand your post. Would you clarify?


(ftr, I appreciate the polite back adn forth we're having :) )
I was saying that we changed the definition of marriage and marriages started to fail all over the place. Perhaps we should take your idea and find another word for the "modern marriage" Phone Post 3.0
7/21/14 6:43 AM
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RIPTJR_QuinTheEskimo
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SoccerkickrevivaL -
Slowshot - 
RIPTJR_QuinTheEskimo - 
Slowshot -
RIPTJR_QuinTheEskimo - 
Slowshot -
FastAndBulbous - 
Slowshot - An alternative explanation would be that getting married is a more realistic and socially accepted option than it was 8 years ago.

Or, maybe you're right, and they weren't sure. Either way, is there anything wrong with it?

No, let them pretend, that's fine.

Just like a child or retarded person that you would allow to dress up like a policeman because he thinks he's actually a policeman just like the real policemen he sees.

"Look at us, we're married just like you!"

"Yes you are! You're very good at being married, aren't you!"

The only problem is when other children start believing it too.

Then you have to talk to a bunch of angry parents bitching you out for being hateful, because you told your child that their child wasn't really a policeman.

I have to say, it's pretty insulting to compare the reasoning ability of a grown man to that of a child or retarded person.

You seem to have a certain idea of what the purpose of a marriage is, which is fine. You are free to get married for whatever purpose you like. What I don't get is your unwillingness to see that other, reasonable people might have a different idea of what the purpose of a marriage is.
If the purpose is different amd the act is different why call them the same thing? Phone Post 3.0

It's not that the purpose is different, it's that people disagree on the purpose.

I'm straight. I'm married. I disagree with FAB about what the purpose of marriage is. For straight people. Should I not get to call my marriage a marriage because I disagree with him?
Given the decline of succesful marriages compared to a hundred years ago that idea does make sense. Why sully the good name of marriage with ideals that destroy it? Phone Post 3.0

I'm not 100 percent sure I undestand your post. Would you clarify?


(ftr, I appreciate the polite back adn forth we're having :) )

"Given the decline of succesful marriages compared to a hundred years ago that idea does make sense."

...yeah, if I could beat the fuck out of my wife and kids I am sure she'd submit too. Jesus, you people are dumb. The reason divorce has increased is because we gave women RIGHTS. Rights that everyone should have, whether it to be married or not. To love or not. To vote or not. Some of you idiots are so dense it hurts my fucking brain. Good god.
If you can't imagine a way to be the leader of your family without abusing your wife that's on you. Phone Post 3.0
7/21/14 8:28 AM
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Slowshot
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RIPTJR_QuinTheEskimo - 
Slowshot -
RIPTJR_QuinTheEskimo - 
Slowshot -
RIPTJR_QuinTheEskimo - 
Slowshot -
FastAndBulbous - 
Slowshot - An alternative explanation would be that getting married is a more realistic and socially accepted option than it was 8 years ago.

Or, maybe you're right, and they weren't sure. Either way, is there anything wrong with it?

No, let them pretend, that's fine.

Just like a child or retarded person that you would allow to dress up like a policeman because he thinks he's actually a policeman just like the real policemen he sees.

"Look at us, we're married just like you!"

"Yes you are! You're very good at being married, aren't you!"

The only problem is when other children start believing it too.

Then you have to talk to a bunch of angry parents bitching you out for being hateful, because you told your child that their child wasn't really a policeman.

I have to say, it's pretty insulting to compare the reasoning ability of a grown man to that of a child or retarded person.

You seem to have a certain idea of what the purpose of a marriage is, which is fine. You are free to get married for whatever purpose you like. What I don't get is your unwillingness to see that other, reasonable people might have a different idea of what the purpose of a marriage is.
If the purpose is different amd the act is different why call them the same thing? Phone Post 3.0

It's not that the purpose is different, it's that people disagree on the purpose.

I'm straight. I'm married. I disagree with FAB about what the purpose of marriage is. For straight people. Should I not get to call my marriage a marriage because I disagree with him?
Given the decline of succesful marriages compared to a hundred years ago that idea does make sense. Why sully the good name of marriage with ideals that destroy it? Phone Post 3.0

I'm not 100 percent sure I undestand your post. Would you clarify?


(ftr, I appreciate the polite back adn forth we're having :) )
I was saying that we changed the definition of marriage and marriages started to fail all over the place. Perhaps we should take your idea and find another word for the "modern marriage" Phone Post 3.0

I mean, wouldn't bother me any. Until we do, though, I'm fine with people deciding for themselves what they want their marriage to mean.

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