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BJJGround Forum >> Time to blackbelt


7/30/14 8:11 AM
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ECM
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Just hit my 10 year anniversary today and this has probably been done a million times, but has anyone else noticed the average time to blackbelt has been reduced significantly? I remember when I started it was 10-15 years average with anyone under that being a phenom. Nowadays it seems common for 7-8 years and people getting black in over 10 seems rare. Has the standard diminished? I believe so purely because I don't think someone training for 8 years has nearly the level of knowledge of someone at 12 years despite being obviously technically proficient Phone Post 3.0
7/30/14 10:32 AM
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Josh Mancuso
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I think 7-8 years is and has always been normal for people who train 5-6 days a week. I think now days there are just more of those people.

7/30/14 10:47 AM
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ECM
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Fair point but with that in mind while the person with 7- 8 years x5 days has more mat time than say 12 years x 3 days does that necessarily translate into more knowledge? In my own training for example I've often learnt more during the periods not actively on the mat reading, watching vids, thinking about jiujitsu. Not bashing anyone either way, just an interesting to me observation of the last 5 years in particular Phone Post 3.0
7/30/14 10:47 AM
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SlapUsilly
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More and better training partners along with much better training opportunities on top of a exponentially larger talent pool than there was back in the day definitely mean that the time to black belt has to go down.
 
In fact, I think black belts today are much better than black belts back in the day.. especially among the competitors.
 
Most people that take their jiujitsu serious now train at least 4x a week.. some all week doing double time.
 
Back when i started - 16 years ago, If you said you were training more than 3x a week, people would warn you to take it easy because you didn't want to overwork yourself.
7/30/14 10:56 AM
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SlapUsilly
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ECM - Fair point but with that in mind while the person with 7- 8 years x5 days has more mat time than say 12 years x 3 days does that necessarily translate into more knowledge? In my own training for example I've often learnt more during the periods not actively on the mat reading, watching vids, thinking about jiujitsu. Not bashing anyone either way, just an interesting to me observation of the last 5 years in particular Phone Post 3.0

 

7-8 years is a long time to acquire a lot of knowledge.. especially if you're a dedicated person who trains a lot.
 
Shit..7-8 years is a long time to dedicate yourself diligently in any activity.
 
7/30/14 11:09 AM
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Denise
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I agree with everyone who points out more people, more time training. Seven to eight years of diligent work IS a long time. Also, remember a black belt is really just the beginning; it symbolizes a mastery over the fundamental concepts of the art, not mastery of the art in its entirety.
7/30/14 11:13 AM
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Hworang
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The standard has diminished massively IMO
7/30/14 11:16 AM
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ECM
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Denise - I agree with everyone who points out more people, more time training. Seven to eight years of diligent work IS a long time. Also, remember a black belt is really just the beginning; it symbolizes a mastery over the fundamental concepts of the art, not mastery of the art in its entirety.
For judo, karate, tkd etc if agree, but for bjj I always thought a black belt was an expert. I mean I started judo at the same time and am now a san dan while I'm a brown belt in bjj. And that's training an average 3 - 4 times per week maybe 6 to 8 hours total.

It's weird that it's only really been the last year or so that I've been finding real value in learning off the mat even though it's something I've always done Phone Post 3.0
7/30/14 11:21 AM
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ECM
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Hworang - The standard has diminished massively IMO
The follow up then is what IS the standard? I remember when I started a black belt had to be a wizard on the mat, and also have a very solid grasp of self defence and vale tudo as well as being able to demonstrate they could teach proficiently. Phone Post 3.0
7/30/14 11:54 AM
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Josh Mancuso
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Mat time > total time training

Simply put Phone Post 3.0
7/30/14 11:58 AM
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Josh Mancuso
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Hworang - The standard has diminished massively IMO
Overall I would disagree. In America for the beginning of BJ's invasion, we only got the elite Blackbelts from Brazil. If you actually go to Brazil, you will realize that they have just as many mediocre Blackbelts as the states. They are just much more used to it. We (myself included) are not used to this so we freak out every time someone gets promoted that sucks.

I personally won't socially promote anyone past bluebelt but everyone can do whatever they want. I am only concerned with what happens at my academy. Phone Post 3.0
7/30/14 1:07 PM
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TheBearStare
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i think the biggest difference is availiability of training. it was extremely common back in the day to have to drive an hour or more just to train. that completely limits training opportunities. i think thats why 10-15 was quite common. this definitely applies to me. now there are schools everywhere and finding a place or places under 20 minutes away is normal. my commute back in the day way 1.5 hrs one way. now its ten minutes. my training is way more consistent now as a result.
7/30/14 1:12 PM
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TheBearStare
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i do think standards have diminished though, even if that means its more like brazil. my opinion of black belt has really changed for the worse. before i used to think that you had to train consistently you would eventually earn a black belt. now i feel like in reality all you have to do is make an appearance. if you keep showing up(doesnt mean you are actually training with effort) someone will eventually give you your belts. all too often ive seen guys who never show up to train, start showing up more regularly and that counts as "taking it to the next level" all because their baseline for training is nonexistent. BAM BELT PROMOTION. i firmly believe everyone is capable of earning a black belt however not everyone deserves a black belt.
7/30/14 1:20 PM
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Papa November
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Contrary to popular belief, you don't have to be superman to be a BJJ blackbelt.  Mat time, knowledge and ability should be the criteria to focus on.  Much of the superman image is due to the early mystique and the lore that it generated when BJJ first came to the US.  Marketing helped fuel this thinking as well. My coach's favorite response to naysers of promotions:  'Tell them to roll with you.  The mat's the crucible.'

Not sure if it was in 'Training in the South Zone' or some other book, but it's mentioned that there are 10's of thousands of blackbelts in Rio alone.  Most are professionals who see BJJ as a hobby and love the training and camraderie that it brings.  

7/30/14 1:42 PM
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justsomeguy2
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Edited: 07/30/14 1:43 PM
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This seems to be the minimum standard these days:

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t7/kying418/gb_belt_system_zps5c1f21d7.gif
7/30/14 2:13 PM
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JGooch
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I have been training on and off since 2003. I never stay long enough or come enough to get great. so 11 years i just got my third stripe on my white belt, i think im doing it wrong.
7/30/14 2:20 PM
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The Mat Pimp
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One factor is that in times past, you were expected to know all three elements of jiu-jitsu: self defense, sport, and vale tudo techniques. Now sport BJJ is the principle requirement, and I definitely think the level has improved as far as that goes. However, the standard of SD/VT has dropped considerable.

Budo Jake's interview with Rickson as a convenient example, he didn't know how to defend a push, a punch, or a choke from behind, and he is a black belt. I have no doubt he can roll, but the field of knowledge is narrow.
7/30/14 2:44 PM
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Marion Cobretti
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The Internet explosion. No more secrets. Should of fueled a faster learning curve for most. Phone Post 3.0
7/30/14 2:52 PM
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ElPulpo
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Josh Mancuso - Mat time > total time training

Simply put Phone Post 3.0

Your common sense and logic are not welcome here.
7/30/14 3:12 PM
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AlcoholicA
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justsomeguy2 - This seems to be the minimum standard these days:

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t7/kying418/gb_belt_system_zps5c1f21d7.gif

.

7/30/14 3:50 PM
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BTTMike
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ElPulpo -
Josh Mancuso - Mat time > total time training

Simply put Phone Post 3.0

Your common sense and logic are not welcome here.
Lol

People can't comprehend this. I've been training 5 years and just got my Brown over this weekend. For the last two years, I have consistently trained 5 to 6 days a week three to five hours a day.

It's about how much time to commit to training and being on the mat, not just how long you've been training for. Phone Post 3.0
7/30/14 3:59 PM
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Denise
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Henry Akins speaks elegantly about what Rickson told him regarding BJJ belts. Basically, it's really individual.
7/30/14 4:07 PM
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falsecrack
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It really depends on the instructor, I've never trained less than 5xs / wk, and spent the majority of my time at more than 10x's a week. It will take at least 10 to get my black belt and I think that is how it should be
7/30/14 4:08 PM
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ElPulpo
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BTTMike - 
ElPulpo -
Josh Mancuso - Mat time > total time training

Simply put Phone Post 3.0

Your common sense and logic are not welcome here.
Lol

People can't comprehend this. I've been training 5 years and just got my Brown over this weekend. For the last two years, I have consistently trained 5 to 6 days a week three to five hours a day.

It's about how much time to commit to training and being on the mat, not just how long you've been training for. Phone Post 3.0

Precisely. I trained my ass off from white to purple. Did it in 3 1/2 years by training seven days a week and only taking days off as needed. For a significant portion of that I was training multiple times a day and swimming for extra cardio.

Then I got lazy and took about a year off.

Now I'm 6 1/2 years in and still purple. Should have been halfway through brown by now. But, you only get what you put in to this. Wish more people understood that rather than trying to find quick fixes and easier ways out.
7/30/14 4:21 PM
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TheBearStare
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extremely true about the mat time. however thats easier to do now because of the plethora of bjj schools out there. bjj is dramatically more accessible now then it has ever been.

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