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Revgear League BJJGround >> Time to blackbelt

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7/30/14 4:22 PM
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graciesrule
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The level of sport BJJ is much higher now at Black belt, but self defense and Vale Tudo is much lower IMO.
7/30/14 5:14 PM
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Jessy Ringquist
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Josh Mancuso -

I think 7-8 years is and has always been normal for people who train 5-6 days a week. I think now days there are just more of those people.

This. Phone Post 3.0
7/30/14 7:20 PM
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The Mat Pimp
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7-8 years has definitely NOT been normal for guys affiliated with Relson Gracie. More like 10 to 15. And these aren't just guys who train 3 to 4 days a week, but every day, running their own schools too, and performing well in competition or MMA.
7/31/14 4:22 AM
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ozjiujitsu
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I think my coach has awarded maybe 7 black belts. None of them have been training under 10 years. I don't think he really gives a shit how good you are or how many years you have been training. Seems like your just a black belt when he says you are and only he decides. Phone Post 3.0
7/31/14 9:59 AM
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SlapUsilly
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Black Belt, Netcong, NJ

 

I've heard many times, in judo, that there is a tendency , here in the States, to out-Japanese the Japanese.  I.e. excessive bowing, too much formalities ..etc.etc. that they don't bother with, even in Japan.
 
I think this has become the case in BJJ as well.  To out -brazilian the brazilians.  
 
Ok, so back in the day, Rorion said that the average time for the average practicioner (2-3x a week training) would be 10-12 years to black belt, and now, to some, it became dogma.. for everyone, regardless of skill level or physical ability and accomplishments?  LOL.. wtf.
 
In my opinion, any promotion, to any belt that uses time in art as either a catalyst or a governor for the promotion, does the art a huge disservice.
 
Training a year and a half = automatic blue belt
 
is just as harmful as
 
Training a year and a half 5x a week and tapping blues with technique != blue belt because its not been long enough.
 
 
By some of these ridiculous standards some of you impose  on yourselves and others  as some fucked up badge of honor, serious hard work and dedication is not rewarded and in fact, would harm a lot of the competitors.
 
By the same time standards, BJ Penn would of not gotten his black belt and become the 1st world champ when he did, JT Torres would be a brown belt still, Shaolin would of taken another 6 years (at least).
 
 
Here's a shocker for most of you who aren't black belts yet.  
 
It's only as good as the work, not the time, you put in to getting it, and once you get it, you realize that you don't know shit and there is sooo much more to learn and do.
7/31/14 12:05 PM
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ECM
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Mat time takes into account rolling ability. I don't think anyone is arguing that the average blackbelt of today would wreck their counterpart of say 10 years ago so obviously that facet has improved. My concern is the vale tudo side and more importantly teaching ability. I'm also divided on the opinion that learning only happens on the mat

End of the day my coach is also very old school and hasn't promoted anyone before I think 12 years regardless of how much they train or how well they do in comps so obviously that skews my opinion in that direction Phone Post 3.0
7/31/14 3:51 PM
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graciesrule
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Denise - I agree with everyone who points out more people, more time training. Seven to eight years of diligent work IS a long time. Also, remember a black belt is really just the beginning; it symbolizes a mastery over the fundamental concepts of the art, not mastery of the art in its entirety.
For judo, karate, tkd etc if agree, but for bjj I always thought a black belt was an expert. I mean I started judo at the same time and am now a san dan while I'm a brown belt in bjj. And that's training an average 3 - 4 times per week maybe 6 to 8 hours total.

It's weird that it's only really been the last year or so that I've been finding real value in learning off the mat even though it's something I've always done Phone Post 3.0

Wow, interesting. I saw a DVD recently were Dave Camarillio said he thinks Judo is more difficult than BJJ because of the timing of the throws. Do you think the Judo curriculum is just less or just the ranks are easier(expect less at each belt)?
7/31/14 5:14 PM
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ECM
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graciesrule -
ECM - 
Denise - I agree with everyone who points out more people, more time training. Seven to eight years of diligent work IS a long time. Also, remember a black belt is really just the beginning; it symbolizes a mastery over the fundamental concepts of the art, not mastery of the art in its entirety.
For judo, karate, tkd etc if agree, but for bjj I always thought a black belt was an expert. I mean I started judo at the same time and am now a san dan while I'm a brown belt in bjj. And that's training an average 3 - 4 times per week maybe 6 to 8 hours total.

It's weird that it's only really been the last year or so that I've been finding real value in learning off the mat even though it's something I've always done Phone Post 3.0

Wow, interesting. I saw a DVD recently were Dave Camarillio said he thinks Judo is more difficult than BJJ because of the timing of the throws. Do you think the Judo curriculum is just less or just the ranks are easier(expect less at each belt)?
I think it is because the expectation of a judo blackbelt is that they've just learnt the basics and are ready to begin really training the art similar to what I'd expect from a good bjj blue belt

And I don't think either art is more difficult than the other Phone Post 3.0
7/31/14 5:39 PM
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TheBearStare
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awesome post slapusilly. agree completely
7/31/14 5:41 PM
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falsecrack
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Edited: 07/31/14 5:43 PM
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How does a Brazilian out Brazilian a Brazilian?

I'm not the one setting the standards for my promotion or anyone else's, nor should I be
7/31/14 5:58 PM
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PrettyBoy
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AlcoholicA -
justsomeguy2 - This seems to be the minimum standard these days:

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t7/kying418/gb_belt_system_zps5c1f21d7.gif

.

In all fairness that is the minimum. That's the absolute fastest anyone can make it to those ranks. I don't know if anyone at a Barra who actually has made it on those time schedules. Phone Post 3.0
7/31/14 7:45 PM
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Randy Marsh
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.

7/31/14 7:59 PM
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irishmike1
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8 years with 1 year being laid up with a fused neck.

7/31/14 8:08 PM
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ECM
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irishmike1 -

8 years with 1 year being laid up with a fused neck.

Ouch. You still able to train? Phone Post 3.0
8/1/14 12:28 PM
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joe_mama
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SlapUsilly - 

 

More and better training partners along with much better training opportunities on top of a exponentially larger talent pool than there was back in the day definitely mean that the time to black belt has to go down.
 
In fact, I think black belts today are much better than black belts back in the day.. especially among the competitors.
 
Most people that take their jiujitsu serious now train at least 4x a week.. some all week doing double time.
 
Back when i started - 16 years ago, If you said you were training more than 3x a week, people would warn you to take it easy because you didn't want to overwork yourself.

This! Yeah, I started almost 10 years ago, and this whole training 7x a week, multiple times a day just wasn't done. 4x a week seemed like it was pushing it. And people would advise you to not roll too hard, go easy every other day etc.

What changed? How are people able to train so much more nowadays? Are strength and conditioning and nutrition programs picking up the slack here? Or did everyone just go on the bomba without telling me?
8/1/14 2:19 PM
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ECM
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joe_mama -
SlapUsilly - 

 

More and better training partners along with much better training opportunities on top of a exponentially larger talent pool than there was back in the day definitely mean that the time to black belt has to go down.
 
In fact, I think black belts today are much better than black belts back in the day.. especially among the competitors.
 
Most people that take their jiujitsu serious now train at least 4x a week.. some all week doing double time.
 
Back when i started - 16 years ago, If you said you were training more than 3x a week, people would warn you to take it easy because you didn't want to overwork yourself.

This! Yeah, I started almost 10 years ago, and this whole training 7x a week, multiple times a day just wasn't done. 4x a week seemed like it was pushing it. And people would advise you to not roll too hard, go easy every other day etc.

What changed? How are people able to train so much more nowadays? Are strength and conditioning and nutrition programs picking up the slack here? Or did everyone just go on the bomba without telling me?
Jiujitsu lifestyle man. Quit your job and life outside of bjj, juice up to the gills to try to prevent injury and allow you to just roll in the hope of obtaining a shitty medal Phone Post 3.0
8/1/14 4:19 PM
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A_Butler
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ECM -
joe_mama -
SlapUsilly - 

 

More and better training partners along with much better training opportunities on top of a exponentially larger talent pool than there was back in the day definitely mean that the time to black belt has to go down.
 
In fact, I think black belts today are much better than black belts back in the day.. especially among the competitors.
 
Most people that take their jiujitsu serious now train at least 4x a week.. some all week doing double time.
 
Back when i started - 16 years ago, If you said you were training more than 3x a week, people would warn you to take it easy because you didn't want to overwork yourself.

This! Yeah, I started almost 10 years ago, and this whole training 7x a week, multiple times a day just wasn't done. 4x a week seemed like it was pushing it. And people would advise you to not roll too hard, go easy every other day etc.

What changed? How are people able to train so much more nowadays? Are strength and conditioning and nutrition programs picking up the slack here? Or did everyone just go on the bomba without telling me?
Jiujitsu lifestyle man. Quit your job and life outside of bjj, juice up to the gills to try to prevent injury and allow you to just roll in the hope of obtaining a shitty medal Phone Post 3.0
Spot. Effing. On.

The ped use by pros, even amateurs, blows my mind. Phone Post 3.0
8/2/14 3:29 AM
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Marion Cobretti
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JIu jitsu lifestyle.. lol.. vote up ECM 

8/2/14 11:22 AM
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ECM
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Easytarget - So a guy at my gym is very good. He was a purple belt at three years, and won his division and absolute at almost every comp he entered. He did the same at brown. He just got his black belt at 6 years of training, entered a tournament and won his division and absolute. He trains 6 days a week, does no S&C.

I always thought 6 days a week is why he does so well. IMO, and my schools experience, 3 days a week will give you a black belt in 8-9 years. Our guys compete well at every belt level. I just cant see how it takes more than 10 years of regular training.
Because you seem to be basing everything on only one facet of bjj- competition Phone Post 3.0
8/2/14 6:55 PM
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irishmike1
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irishmike1 -

8 years with 1 year being laid up with a fused neck.

Ouch. You still able to train? Phone Post 3.0

I trained for 5 years after the surgery.  I have slowed down quite a bit because I was having neck issues again and it is hard to trust people you roll with now.  So I only train with a select group.

8/3/14 12:46 AM
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Josh Mancuso
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A_Butler -
ECM -
joe_mama -
SlapUsilly - 

 

More and better training partners along with much better training opportunities on top of a exponentially larger talent pool than there was back in the day definitely mean that the time to black belt has to go down.
 
In fact, I think black belts today are much better than black belts back in the day.. especially among the competitors.
 
Most people that take their jiujitsu serious now train at least 4x a week.. some all week doing double time.
 
Back when i started - 16 years ago, If you said you were training more than 3x a week, people would warn you to take it easy because you didn't want to overwork yourself.

This! Yeah, I started almost 10 years ago, and this whole training 7x a week, multiple times a day just wasn't done. 4x a week seemed like it was pushing it. And people would advise you to not roll too hard, go easy every other day etc.

What changed? How are people able to train so much more nowadays? Are strength and conditioning and nutrition programs picking up the slack here? Or did everyone just go on the bomba without telling me?
Jiujitsu lifestyle man. Quit your job and life outside of bjj, juice up to the gills to try to prevent injury and allow you to just roll in the hope of obtaining a shitty medal Phone Post 3.0
Spot. Effing. On.

The ped use by pros, even amateurs, blows my mind. Phone Post 3.0
I don't use PEDs and train 6 days a week. Not counting two lifting sessions and 2 or 3 days a week I train two a days.

I am also 33 years old. Takes drive and a good diet. Not all people who train hard are on roids. Phone Post 3.0
8/3/14 10:46 AM
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twinkletoesCT
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Josh Mancuso - Mat time > total time training

Simply put Phone Post 3.0

Mat time > total time training  is right on.

Also:

focused purposeful mat time > "hey let's just roll"

 

After trying a few clubs over a few years, I settled in under Roy Harris and completely restarted my training.  From there, it took me almost exactly 10 years to earn my black belt.  The first three years I trained 3x a week.  The rest of the years I trained 6-10 times a week.  I did all this with a super-detailed plan laid out in front of me, and 2-5 times a year I trained with Mr. Harris to receive corrections and guidance.  I'm nothing special, but I put in a good amount of time on the right areas, and I got where I was going in a reasonable amount of time.  

8/4/14 1:18 PM
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Daniël Bertina
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Mat time is king.

However. It took me 13 years but I'm an idiot and my instructor is really strict with promotions. He's a 4th degree and he has only promoted 1 black belt (lil' old me). Phone Post 3.0
8/6/14 1:52 AM
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TOSH COOK
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16 years.  Worth every damn day.

8/6/14 6:38 AM
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Sir Taps
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I think today's black belts are as good on the mat as ones from years gone by, but for the majority, they have less knowledge about the self defence and vale tudo side of things (when I first started BJJ was described as having 3 areas - sport, self defence, and vale tudo).

I think one of the reasons people think that old school black belts were better, was that the first BBs to leave Brazil and teach overseas were either Gracies, or really super high level guys. We never saw the average club BB that all clubs have, just the absolute cream of the crop. So compared to those guys, no-one is going to match up.

James

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