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BJJGround Forum >> White knighting on the atama forum


8/1/14 1:24 PM
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BTTMike
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Mr. Tobar, what you've just said... is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no promotion, and may God have mercy on your soul... Phone Post 3.0
8/1/14 1:28 PM
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Wutang
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In your fb post you reffer to him as a black belt. Still stays anything about you being promoted.

8/1/14 1:31 PM
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os3y3ris
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He's caught pretty read handed.

BTT and the IBJJF having a meeting about the rules for rank AND affiliation? While looking for a two grand pay out?

Athletes affiliation and academy registration deadline
All Juvenile, brown and black belt athletes must be properly affiliated for the current year. All tournaments taking place in Brazil require all participating athlete's to be properly affiliated for the current year.


Mandatory affiliation rule by a guy who sells the most expensive affiliation out there, and controls the other affiliations as well? Come on... I know a hustle when I see one and that's a hustle.
8/1/14 1:32 PM
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os3y3ris
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In your fb post you reffer to him as a black belt. Still stays anything about you being promoted.


What do you think we're discussing?
8/1/14 1:45 PM
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os3y3ris
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Has no one noticed that you can't hold certain ranks in certain affiliations?
8/1/14 1:47 PM
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checkuroil
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Where is your promotion mentioned. Phone Post 3.0
8/1/14 1:49 PM
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Jdonw
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os3y3ris - 
But you jump between getting a black belt, affiliating with BTT, then registering your academy with the IBJJF, then the head of the IBJJF is conspiring to extort $2000 dollars from you, to the IBJJF is blackmailing Vinny with a demotion to begin the deportation process.


They're the same event. The belt ranks are tied to a few things behind the scenes.

One of these things is US Visas. The other is affiliation. You can purchase your belt, with our without degrees, to gain access to the United States of America. This costs about ten thousand dollars. If you here that a Brazilian is threatened with loss of rank, that's code for deportation.

The other hidden attachment is affiliation. This means that to hold the rank of brown or black, while running an academy, that you have to sign into a passive income scheme. You pay a couple hundred a month, they rebrand you, a product most established gyms don't need, and you're allowed to hold rank.

Would you like proof of either of these things?


Yes, you sound insane because you have no proof of anything that you say. Having proof would definitely help your case.
8/1/14 1:50 PM
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os3y3ris
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We're discussing the matter. The application I'm referring to is the black belt application. The "belt ranks and affiliations", he was being called to discuss were mine. Now, if you think that this conversation is actually about something else, then by all means, lets here it. What is this mysterious 4k package that drops 2k per belt?
8/1/14 2:00 PM
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os3y3ris
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Yes, you sound insane because you have no proof of anything that you say. Having proof would definitely help your case.


First off, you can see them do it here:

http://www.jiujitsuforums.com/discussion/29307/ibjjf-black-belt-certification-my-story-what-do-you-think/p1

I know, that person MUST be lying too. They didn't just sell this guy an immigration belt.

There are actually lawyers that specialize in linking the two.

http://www.njimmigrationattorney.com/articles/O-VISAS-FOR-BRAZILIAN-JIU-JITSU-AND-MMA-ATHLETES.shtml

As for the affiliation, check this out:

Athletes affiliation and academy registration deadline
All Juvenile, brown and black belt athletes must be properly affiliated for the current year. All tournaments taking place in Brazil require all participating athlete's to be properly affiliated for the current year.


http://ibjjf.org/championship/vegas-summer-international-open-ibjjf-championship/

It's right there on the middle of their website that you HAVE to have an affiliation, and that's not a square deal at all. I don't need to rebrand, and it's certainly not worth 2k for me to do so. I can't hold rank if I don't sign one of those contracts? No thanks.
8/1/14 2:06 PM
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raleigh
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what does affiliation have to do with ranking?!
8/1/14 2:14 PM
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os3y3ris
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what does affiliation have to do with ranking?!


That is my entire point. You don't affiliate, you don't get ranked. You affiliate with the "wrong" team and your rank gets capped at brown. Let's say for instance I wanted to join the free affiliation, the globe trotters. Well, you can't hold a black belt AND be a globe trotter. You have to upgrade to a 2k affiliation.
8/1/14 2:17 PM
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ECM
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Seriously that's your proof?!? Serious question: are you on medication? Phone Post 3.0
8/1/14 2:17 PM
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liuk3
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Edited: 08/01/14 2:26 PM
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Why don't you just find another instructor (that you respect) to train under and get your black belt promotion under that instructor?
8/1/14 2:22 PM
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Furacao
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I know a guy that got promoted by Carlson Gracie Sr. to BB during a seminar (Carlson wasnt his current professor, his real professor was a Carlson BB). Sr. thought his level was at Blackbelt and surprised him with it. Carlson tied the belt around his waist and everything. 

He actually turned the BB back in respectfully and went back to Brown as he didnt want to offend his current professor (he was traveling in Brasil at the time). He didnt get promoted to Black for a whole year after that and he was running a school as well, so having a BB directly from Sr. would have helped his business. He could have easily kept the belt from Carlson Sr. but he stated he came up thru the ranks with his professor and wanted to get it the right way. He finally got the BB from his original professor a year later after winning some titles and all is well with him and his BJJ business. 

He had a guy as legit as Carlson Gracie Sr. telling him he was at BB level and he followed his BJJ lineage protocol and waited to get it from his real professor...

Os3y3ris - I dont know you personally but I understand how you may feel getting shafted in some kind of belt money grab. However, at the end of the day the color of your belt shouldnt trump following basic BJJ lineage protocol.

In your shoes, I would have found someone outside Carlos network, put in another year of grinding at Brown and gotten it the right way. 

 

 

 

8/1/14 2:23 PM
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Meatgrinder
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Your problem is that at the time, you could've just continued to train under your instructor until he was high enough ranked to promote you. You didn't want to do that, so you shopped around as if it was just going to be paperwork and someone else would just hand you a BB. At that point in time, your instructor was not yet deported. Now that he is deported, you're not training under anyone. You need  to find a BB to just train under. 

Now you are conflating your peronsal training with school affiliation. Those non ibjjf agreements are in order to have your school as an affiliate school. 

8/1/14 2:26 PM
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JoejitsuMD
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You are like a guy who spent years doing well in law school then walked out in the middle of the bar exam because you felt some of the questions were unfair. Then you go around telling people you passed the bar and are a certified attorney. There is no way you believe your own bullshit. You will never be able to win anyone over by continuing to "stay the course" with your self promotion. Phone Post 3.0
8/1/14 2:27 PM
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os3y3ris
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Why don't you just find another instructor to train under and get your black belt promotion under?


They were right the first time. That's why I was promoted in the first place. I demonstrated my skill as a black belt and was in fact regional champion at the time. The fact that someone saw this as an opportunity to steal from me saddens me, but I'm not dropping a level to appease criminals.
8/1/14 2:28 PM
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os3y3ris
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Meatgrinder, none of what you stated was factual.
8/1/14 2:29 PM
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os3y3ris
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You are like a guy who spent years doing well in law school then walked out in the middle of the bar exam because you felt some of the questions were unfair.


Nah. It's like if the dean came in and asked for a bribe after the test, and threatened to fail you if you didn't pay.
8/1/14 2:35 PM
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dokomoy
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os3y3ris - 
You are like a guy who spent years doing well in law school then walked out in the middle of the bar exam because you felt some of the questions were unfair.


Nah. It's like if the dean came in and asked for a bribe after the test, and threatened to fail you if you didn't pay.

No it's like being charged a fee to take the test and calling it a bribe.
8/1/14 2:37 PM
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dokomoy
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Or like being charged a fee for test prep and using that to accuse the person running the test of bribery
8/1/14 2:46 PM
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Ozzimandias
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weak sauce

8/1/14 2:48 PM
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Jdonw
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Edited: 08/01/14 2:52 PM
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<blockquote>os3y3ris - <span id='userPost50340192' class='User-174968'><blockquote>Yes, you sound insane because you have no proof of anything that you say. Having proof would definitely help your case.</blockquote><br /><br />First off, you can see them do it here:<br /><br />http://www.jiujitsuforums.com/discussion/29307/ibjjf-black-belt-certification-my-story-what-do-you-think/p1<br /><br />I know, that person MUST be lying too. They didn't just sell this guy an immigration belt. <br /><br />There are actually lawyers that specialize in linking the two. <br /><br />http://www.njimmigrationattorney.com/articles/O-VISAS-FOR-BRAZILIAN-JIU-JITSU-AND-MMA-ATHLETES.shtml<br /><br />As for the affiliation, check this out:<br /><br /><blockquote>Athletes affiliation and academy registration deadline<br />All Juvenile, brown and black belt athletes must be properly affiliated for the current year. All tournaments taking place in Brazil require all participating athlete's to be properly affiliated for the current year.</blockquote><br /><br />http://ibjjf.org/championship/vegas-summer-international-open-ibjjf-championship/<br /><br />It's right there on the middle of their website that you HAVE to have an affiliation, and that's not a square deal at all. I don't need to rebrand, and it's certainly not worth 2k for me to do so. I can't hold rank if I don't sign one of those contracts? No thanks.</span></blockquote><br /> The affiliation they talk about is the $50 membership card. Which is BS that you have to pay them another $50 to register, but it is not in the same category as your conspiracy theory.
8/1/14 2:51 PM
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Jdonw
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os3y3ris - 
what does affiliation have to do with ranking?!


That is my entire point. You don't affiliate, you don't get ranked. You affiliate with the "wrong" team and your rank gets capped at brown. Let's say for instance I wanted to join the free affiliation, the globe trotters. Well, you can't hold a black belt AND be a globe trotter. You have to upgrade to a 2k affiliation.

Then how is it that none of the many black belts I know have had to pay the IBJJF 2K to affiliate themselves? You can in fact sign up for tournaments as a black belt without paying 2k to the IBJJF.
8/1/14 3:12 PM
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Wutang
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os3y3ris - 
In your fb post you reffer to him as a black belt. Still stays anything about you being promoted.


What do you think we're discussing?

You were discussing your affiliation - not your rank. I still haven't seen anything that he acknowledges you're a black belt. Affilition and ranking is two different things. BTT is hardly the "wrong" team to be on - they have a ton of black belts that compete.

Getting your black belt card is $45/$40 a year as long as you're a part of team that has someone recognized as 2nd degree or above vouching for you. 

Is the issue that you don't have a 2nd degree BB vouching for you? Why not just wait it out with another instructor and get promoted properly instead of being the victim had not having anyone recognize your rank? As a business owner it would seem detrimental to your business especially with this all out in the internet.


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