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BJJGround Forum >> White knighting on the atama forum


7/31/14 1:35 PM
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raleigh
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os3y3ris - you are not entirely clear on your circumstances

if I was asked to pay $2k to get my black I'd be highly offended and walk as well

I don't see that happening though, never even heard of this

if there was outside pressure to pay something like this, I am sure we'd still get the belt and deal with that later if we wanted to

again, never seen or heard of a situation like this.
7/31/14 1:50 PM
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Must
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os3y3ris - I don't get it. You are known for being a high level competitor, and have the results to back it up. If you've seen his instructionals or matches it is obvious that his skill level in BJJ is around blue belt. There is no way that he would pass any decent test for a black belt without money being exchanged. So it is obvious that he has cheated his way through the ranks. And now he's at a point where he sells black belt level instructions to customers that has no idea that they're only receiving instructions from a blue belt. And the only way for them to find out about this fraud is from threads on the Internet. Why would you want to close that avenue of information and let a guy like Toby get away with it uncontested?

Your situation is completely different. The only similarity I can think of is that you are both running your own businesses. Maybe you would view it differently if Toby started selling his "black belt" services in your area?
7/31/14 1:54 PM
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checkuroil
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I read JJ machados affiliation agreement in its entirety. There's nothing in there referring to anything relevant to your argument.

It's a voluntary agreement between two parties about banners to fly. There's nothing I'm there about paying for promotions Phone Post 3.0
7/31/14 2:06 PM
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BTTMike
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os3y3ris - Nope. Instructor did. He didn't have the degrees to do so, so he contacted BTT and they cleared it in exchange for a couple classes a week. So the paper work goes in, comes out with a 2k price tag to complete the promotion. If I didn't pay, I would lose credit for my brown belt and have to redo that. So I put the black belt on and ignored the bribe request and threat. Now they want to push the issue, with some, like in this thread, even resorting to physical threats to attack my business.
Rigggghght... Mmm BULLSHIT.

Nobody ever promoted you homie. Show us a pic of ANYONE tying a Black Belt around your waist?

It's unbelievable to me that you have so much he go to not only promote yourself, but I continue telling your ridiculous tales of how you were "cheated". Phone Post 3.0
7/31/14 2:18 PM
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os3y3ris
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Maybe you would view it differently if Toby started selling his "black belt" services in your area?


I'm actually open to competitors in the market. Had a guy applying for the exact same job as I. He needed testing for his purple. I agreed to do so, at no cost to him of course, and he passed. He got the promotion and the job. That's my whole point. Let's keep it square across the board, leaving our business dealings out of our evaluations. My student failed to subdue him and so he advanced. That's the jiujitsu standard. Evil, I know.

You are known for being a high level competitor, and have the results to back it up. If you've seen his instructionals or matches it is obvious that his skill level in BJJ is around blue belt. There is no way that he would pass any decent test for a black belt without money being exchanged. So it is obvious that he has cheated his way through the ranks.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lAJTwif-qY
7/31/14 2:21 PM
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os3y3ris
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I read JJ machados affiliation agreement in its entirety. There's nothing in there referring to anything relevant to your argument.

It's a voluntary agreement between two parties about banners to fly. There's nothing I'm there about paying for promotions


Check this out:

Athletes affiliation and academy registration deadline
All Juvenile, brown and black belt athletes [b]must[/b] be properly affiliated for the current year. All tournaments taking place in Brazil require all participating athlete's to be properly affiliated for the current year.



To hold brown and black you have to be properly affiliated. Those are the rules. That is what affiliation entails.
7/31/14 2:22 PM
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os3y3ris
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Sorry, the link: http://ibjjf.org/championship/vegas-summer-international-open-ibjjf-championship/
7/31/14 2:36 PM
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JoejitsuMD
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Dude, you are unbelievable. First you promote yourself to black belt now you're "testing" and promoting other people to belt ranks? You are exactly why BJJ gets watered down. Fucking ridiculous Phone Post 3.0
7/31/14 2:40 PM
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os3y3ris
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Dude, I've always had permission to promote. There are no issues with my brown belt, and I'm a certified instructor. And there is nothing watered down about my jiujitsu.
7/31/14 2:44 PM
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BTTMike
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os3y3ris - Dude, I've always had permission to promote. There are no issues with my brown belt, and I'm a certified instructor. And there is nothing watered down about my jiujitsu.
Lol so you admit you're not a Black Belt now? Phone Post 3.0
7/31/14 2:46 PM
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os3y3ris
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Nothing of the sort. Either is sufficient to move someone up to purple, so regardless of the bullshit, that stands.
7/31/14 2:54 PM
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os3y3ris
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Rigggghght... Mmm BULLSHIT.


Ask somebody.
7/31/14 3:17 PM
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Meatgrinder
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os3y3ris - 
Maybe you would view it differently if Toby started selling his "black belt" services in your area?


I'm actually open to competitors in the market. Had a guy applying for the exact same job as I. He needed testing for his purple. I agreed to do so, at no cost to him of course, and he passed. He got the promotion and the job. That's my whole point. Let's keep it square across the board, leaving our business dealings out of our evaluations. My student failed to subdue him and so he advanced. That's the jiujitsu standard. Evil, I know.

You are known for being a high level competitor, and have the results to back it up. If you've seen his instructionals or matches it is obvious that his skill level in BJJ is around blue belt. There is no way that he would pass any decent test for a black belt without money being exchanged. So it is obvious that he has cheated his way through the ranks.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lAJTwif-qY

yup... His grappling sucks. Got mounted with ease a couple of times... could've easily been choked out a couple of times too if Bobby Green knew what he was doing. Green's defense to a mediocre triangle was awful as he had plenty of time to posture out... Was this really an attempt to demonstrate BB level?

I've seen his grappling match videos as well... Nothing I can see leads me to believe that he's beyond a blue belt. Explosive, athlete tough kid though.

 

You're story is that you were training under someone who can't promote you to black... Oh well... Someone who runs a school as a purple belt can't promote his students to black either no matter how long they train under him. Imagine that! You and he tried to figure out a way to get it done but you needed to make your school an affiliate member of the school system that you were going to get promoted under....There are fees with the affiliation, not with the promotion. In a couple of years, your instructor would've been ranked high enough to promote you, but I guess you didn't want to wait that long??? 

..And now you're just pulling these affiliation documents out as examples of an entirely corrupt system (that no one else besides you and Toby really have any trouble with.... and some frauds). So exactly which affiliation were you having trouble with? Because I heard nothing but slander of Carlos and the IBBJF until now?... The IBJJF doesn't even promote. That's for BB school owners who want to be recognized members of the IBJJF in order for their schools to compete in their tournaments at those recognized belt levels. 

 

 

7/31/14 3:21 PM
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Must
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os3y3ris - 
Maybe you would view it differently if Toby started selling his "black belt" services in your area?


I'm actually open to competitors in the market. Had a guy applying for the exact same job as I. He needed testing for his purple. I agreed to do so, at no cost to him of course, and he passed. He got the promotion and the job. That's my whole point. Let's keep it square across the board, leaving our business dealings out of our evaluations. My student failed to subdue him and so he advanced. That's the jiujitsu standard. Evil, I know.

You are known for being a high level competitor, and have the results to back it up. If you've seen his instructionals or matches it is obvious that his skill level in BJJ is around blue belt. There is no way that he would pass any decent test for a black belt without money being exchanged. So it is obvious that he has cheated his way through the ranks.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lAJTwif-qY

I'm amazed if you found anything in that MMA match to suggest that he has good jiu-jitsu. I saw some basic white belt jiu-jitsu with that triangle and some solid striking and fighting skills.

No doubt that he is a great competitior in MMA. But this was about his level of jiu-jitsu and how he got from blue to black belt.

And as far as your own black belt. Since Carlos Jr & others are being such d*cks to you. Why don't you just do as Toby and go to Aloisio Silva, pay 300$, pass their test and have it over with? I'm sure nobody is gonna doubt that you managed to pass a real test.
7/31/14 3:39 PM
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creekwarrior2
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Meatgrinder - 
os3y3ris - 
Maybe you would view it differently if Toby started selling his "black belt" services in your area?


I'm actually open to competitors in the market. Had a guy applying for the exact same job as I. He needed testing for his purple. I agreed to do so, at no cost to him of course, and he passed. He got the promotion and the job. That's my whole point. Let's keep it square across the board, leaving our business dealings out of our evaluations. My student failed to subdue him and so he advanced. That's the jiujitsu standard. Evil, I know.

You are known for being a high level competitor, and have the results to back it up. If you've seen his instructionals or matches it is obvious that his skill level in BJJ is around blue belt. There is no way that he would pass any decent test for a black belt without money being exchanged. So it is obvious that he has cheated his way through the ranks.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lAJTwif-qY

yup... His grappling sucks. Got mounted with ease a couple of times... could've easily been choked out a couple of times too if Bobby Green knew what he was doing. Green's defense to a mediocre triangle was awful as he had plenty of time to posture out... Was this really an attempt to demonstrate BB level?

I've seen his grappling match videos as well... Nothing I can see leads me to believe that he's beyond a blue belt. Explosive, athlete tough kid though.

 

You're story is that you were training under someone who can't promote you to black... Oh well... Someone who runs a school as a purple belt can't promote his students to black either no matter how long they train under him. Imagine that! You and he tried to figure out a way to get it done but you needed to make your school an affiliate member of the school system that you were going to get promoted under....There are fees with the affiliation, not with the promotion. In a couple of years, your instructor would've been ranked high enough to promote you, but I guess you didn't want to wait that long??? 

..And now you're just pulling these affiliation documents out as examples of an entirely corrupt system (that no one else besides you and Toby really have any trouble with.... and some frauds). So exactly which affiliation were you having trouble with? Because I heard nothing but slander of Carlos and the IBBJF until now?... The IBJJF doesn't even promote. That's for BB school owners who want to be recognized members of the IBJJF in order for their schools to compete in their tournaments at those recognized belt levels. 

 

 


Meatgrinder Hits out of the park with correctness!

os3y3ris You are full of crap! I have followed this BS you been talking for a while. Pull your head out.

I Vote Dojo Storm os3y3ris and see how for real he is.
7/31/14 3:39 PM
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Caught_clean
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Yea I really don't get what your situation has to do with tobys dude. Are you seriously denying he lacks the skills he claims to have? He's a blue at best and paid for his black, cannot show where he got his purple or brown. How are you offended people are calling him out on this? Seriously explain this. Phone Post 3.0
7/31/14 3:39 PM
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checkuroil
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Here's the deal, the ibjjf wants to ensure proper lineage so people don't use their association with the ibjjf to validate illegitimate rank. You want them to validate your rank but you are with no one who can legitimately promote you. End of story.

Them asking for money to endorse you is lame. But that still doesn't legitimize your rank Phone Post 3.0
7/31/14 4:11 PM
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Furacao
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Why not just find another affiliation / BB to promote you after the drama with other camp? Tying a BB around your own waist made the situation worse and your business suspect IMO.

 

7/31/14 4:20 PM
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N5Z
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checkuroil - Here's the deal, the ibjjf wants to ensure proper lineage so people don't use their association with the ibjjf to validate illegitimate rank. You want them to validate your rank but you are with no one who can legitimately promote you. End of story.

Them asking for money to endorse you is lame. But that still doesn't legitimize your rank Phone Post 3.0

I have an issue with this. If the IBJJF did request $$$ to "legitimize" his ranking(which I wouldnt doubt) and the only thing standing between him and the promised blackbelt was the money then that delegitimizes the IBJJF as a body capable of ensurig legitimacy. Its not just lame it delegitimizes the rank of anyone who is recognized by the IBJJF.

Osyris, what I never understood about your story and a part that I think you purposefully gloss over is the black belt who promised to and/or promoted you. He wasnt a 1st/2nd degree BB but I know plenty of black belts who have promoted others to black without the degree. No one ever questions these promotions except the ibjjf when it comes to competition time. So why did he not honor the promotion? If you ask him will he say "yes, i promoted him to black belt" and if he wont why would you even want to represent yourself as his blackbelt?

I had a similar situation happen to me at purple where i was supposed to be promoted then $ and hard feelings got in the way. I didnt belt myself because I didnt think it was appropriate. Granted I didnt run a business at the time but I believe this is where most people disagree with you. Regardless of you deservin the promo or not, did the blackbelt in question actually/physically promote you? Will he vouch for you?

I feel you probably got shitted on and it was unfair but perhaps your actions afterwards werent the best either.
7/31/14 4:51 PM
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CJJScout
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checkuroil - The og has an issue where every time someone posts a pic of a girl they know, some anonymous white knight will image search the pic and contact the girl. So now no one wants to post pics

Well, the epidemic has spread. In the last two months, Eddie and Otavio have been contacted regarding opinions and statements I've made here.

Really? Trying to get me "in trouble" for opinions on a forum. That's lame as fuck Phone Post 3.0

I posted on another thread the exact same issue. High profile BB calling my instructor and bitching about what I post here.
7/31/14 4:52 PM
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Denise
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Wow...just, wow.
7/31/14 4:57 PM
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Denise
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This whole brouhaha caused me to think about how much my BB cost: 8.5 years at about $2K per year (not to mention the time, knee surgery, seminars and other such costs)=$17K!! Dang!
7/31/14 6:02 PM
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os3y3ris
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So why did he not honor the promotion? If you ask him will he say "yes, i promoted him to black belt" and if he wont why would you even want to represent yourself as his blackbelt?


Becuase they threatened to strip him of his rank. Presumably either in New York or in the time after. His rank is tied to his visa and immigration status, so he couldn't refuse.
7/31/14 6:05 PM
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os3y3ris
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Why not just find another affiliation / BB to promote you after the drama with other camp?


Because they're all controlled by the same guy for the most part. That's whats so fucked up.
7/31/14 6:08 PM
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os3y3ris
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Edited: 07/31/14 6:08 PM
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The bottom line is that being unaffiliated makes it impossible to get the belt and keep your honor. You can't even stay down a rank, see Sam Osman. You can't go UP a belt, case in point here, and you can't test for the belt. See True Warrior. It seems the only play involves two grand. That's not cool. You can't box the people in like that.

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