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BJJGround Forum >> Wearing your no gi rank in the gi?


8/2/14 2:24 AM
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ColeMillerATT
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I'm going to use tenth planet as an example because it's the most popular and recognized no gi jj system. Eddie bravo is a black belt in tenth planet as well as BJJ. When he promotes a student to purple for example. I could see him telling that student. "You are a purple belt in tenth planet, if you train gi however u need to wear a blue...tighten up on your spider guard and we will get you to purple in BJJ as well". That's a fake scenario. I'm sure eddies students, when they put the gi on, are more than capable of belonging on the mat in their rank within the gi. But that is a scenario I feel could happen.
I would wear a white rash guard to eddies school out of respect for tenth planet. It doesn't reduce my mat ability. Simply acknowledges I don't fully understand the meticulous little details of his techniques even though I may be able to pull off moves that look like them. Phone Post 3.0
8/2/14 2:28 AM
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falsecrack
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whatevermoo - basically he dropped into our school rocking a purple belt (he has a friend who goes to our school), google search had him getting his brown from a diff school, the guy at our school talked to his boy and he said he didn't feel comfy wearing the brown he was given bc his school didn't have that many colored belts...now he's training with people at my school at the same weight level...how do you treat this situation??

we're basically talking naga no gi divisions

Shouldnt he be in advanced or expert (advanced/expert/pro division given he also has 4 or 5 amateur mma fights) compared to people who have trained 3-4 yrs who are prepping for the same tourney as him.

He def cant rep our school so why should our guys train with him for two months then have to face him in a tourney if he reps a diff school??

Your instructor will have to set policy with regards to that, some schools are cool with the competition visiting and training with them, most are not. Pretty weird he decided to demote himself
8/2/14 2:36 AM
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whatevermoo
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falsecrack - 
whatevermoo - basically he dropped into our school rocking a purple belt (he has a friend who goes to our school), google search had him getting his brown from a diff school, the guy at our school talked to his boy and he said he didn't feel comfy wearing the brown he was given bc his school didn't have that many colored belts...now he's training with people at my school at the same weight level...how do you treat this situation??

we're basically talking naga no gi divisions

Shouldnt he be in advanced or expert (advanced/expert/pro division given he also has 4 or 5 amateur mma fights) compared to people who have trained 3-4 yrs who are prepping for the same tourney as him.

He def cant rep our school so why should our guys train with him for two months then have to face him in a tourney if he reps a diff school??

Your instructor will have to set policy with regards to that, some schools are cool with the competition visiting and training with them, most are not. Pretty weird he decided to demote himself

yeah this all developed within the last month...its just weird figuring out if he is staying with our school after after a few months or leaving...guy has a track record for school hopping, which he mentioned...is it wrong to call dudes out day of tournament if they are obviously sandbagging after training w you for a little
8/2/14 2:45 AM
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whatevermoo
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midwest fun, we're a small school so everything is developed from within, we're accustomed to battling, but this shit is weird
8/2/14 9:55 AM
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Gward is good
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ColeMillerATT - I think if the black belt instructor says that you are a "____ belt in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu" then you wear that belt in the gi. If you have no clue what you're doing the "I train no gi only" excuse does not hold weight. Jiu jitsu is the gi. Greco wrestlers don't slap the gi on and go "oh I'm a no gi judo black belt" there's no such thing. If your instructor says "you're a ___ belt in my no gi jiu jitsu system which is an equivelant of sorts " then I don't think it makes your skillset or that rank less meaningful it just illustrates that the gi is the foundation of that martial art and not knowing techniques in it means that you do not know true Jiu Jitsu. I would still respect other no gi systems and it's practitioners so I don't see why more ppl aren't proud of their accomplishments similarly to the 10th planet system. Phone Post 3.0

I don't think no gi grappling systems should be called Jiu-Jitsu for this very reason.
8/2/14 10:43 AM
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BigEyedFish
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Meatgrinder - 

I train both and I love both and they do compliment each. However gi->nogi is not the same as nogi->gi. ... Early on it doesn't matter too much like Easters said... At the higher level, you might miss a few grips depending upon your style of gi game, but I think the adjustment a pretty quick. When going from nogi->gi, there's a similar adjustment getting used to people gripping you (along with all the extra guards, chokes, etc) that there's more complexity but also the technical details are often missing. There's just less scrambles and slipping through or out of positions. You never had to pay attention to that level of detail to make the move successful enough.... I'm not trying to disparage a nogi rank. I just think that that's the way it is.

There is a lot of translation back and forth. So I'm also not in the camp that says even if you're a nogi brown, that you're a gi white... I think an instructor needs to do some evaluation and just bump up fairly quickly to where he thinks they belong.


this

8/2/14 11:08 AM
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BigEyedFish
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ColeMillerATT - I think if the black belt instructor says that you are a "____ belt in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu" then you wear that belt in the gi. If you have no clue what you're doing the "I train no gi only" excuse does not hold weight. Jiu jitsu is the gi. Greco wrestlers don't slap the gi on and go "oh I'm a no gi judo black belt" there's no such thing. If your instructor says "you're a ___ belt in my no gi jiu jitsu system which is an equivelant of sorts " then I don't think it makes your skillset or that rank less meaningful it just illustrates that the gi is the foundation of that martial art and not knowing techniques in it means that you do not know true Jiu Jitsu. I would still respect other no gi systems and it's practitioners so I don't see why more ppl aren't proud of their accomplishments similarly to the 10th planet system. Phone Post 3.0

this too.  perfectly said

8/2/14 11:25 AM
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kying418
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whatevermoo - 
falsecrack - 
whatevermoo - basically he dropped into our school rocking a purple belt (he has a friend who goes to our school), google search had him getting his brown from a diff school, the guy at our school talked to his boy and he said he didn't feel comfy wearing the brown he was given bc his school didn't have that many colored belts...now he's training with people at my school at the same weight level...how do you treat this situation??

we're basically talking naga no gi divisions

Shouldnt he be in advanced or expert (advanced/expert/pro division given he also has 4 or 5 amateur mma fights) compared to people who have trained 3-4 yrs who are prepping for the same tourney as him.

He def cant rep our school so why should our guys train with him for two months then have to face him in a tourney if he reps a diff school??

Your instructor will have to set policy with regards to that, some schools are cool with the competition visiting and training with them, most are not. Pretty weird he decided to demote himself

yeah this all developed within the last month...its just weird figuring out if he is staying with our school after after a few months or leaving...guy has a track record for school hopping, which he mentioned...is it wrong to call dudes out day of tournament if they are obviously sandbagging after training w you for a little

If he was promoted by a legit instructor, he should wear his belt.

If he doesnt', he is just being weird and disrespectful to his teacher.

The only other situation where I think this might be somewhat ok, is if he plans on getting promoted in the future from your teacher, and he wants to earn that brown belt directly from him (but this doesnt sound like the case- he just sounds like a gym hopping weirdo).

In terms of training together, I got what my teacher Marcelo believes- go ahead and train together, we will learn your game just as much as you are learning our game.
8/4/14 10:52 PM
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kancho assassin
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I received a no-gi rank of purple after many years of training. Although my first three years I trained in the gi. About a year ago I began training in the gi again and the instructor was more than happy to recognize my rank. I guess it just depends. Phone Post 3.0
8/5/14 5:19 AM
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Arlovskis Chin
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More than agree with Cole.

When crossing over whites all around and if the instructor says that you should out on something else, put in something else.

Ego at the door, a belt doesn't diminish not enhance your grappling. Phone Post 3.0
8/5/14 8:48 AM
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brendan raedy
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ColeMillerATT - I think if the black belt instructor says that you are a "____ belt in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu" then you wear that belt in the gi. If you have no clue what you're doing the "I train no gi only" excuse does not hold weight. Jiu jitsu is the gi. Greco wrestlers don't slap the gi on and go "oh I'm a no gi judo black belt" there's no such thing. If your instructor says "you're a ___ belt in my no gi jiu jitsu system which is an equivelant of sorts " then I don't think it makes your skillset or that rank less meaningful it just illustrates that the gi is the foundation of that martial art and not knowing techniques in it means that you do not know true Jiu Jitsu. I would still respect other no gi systems and it's practitioners so I don't see why more ppl aren't proud of their accomplishments similarly to the 10th planet system. Phone Post 3.0

Hi Cole,

First off, just wanted to thank you for taking the time to post on here. It's still awesome to see high level guys on here chiming in. Also, not to go off topic, but I really appreciate the charity work you have done for Alzheimer's. 

Could you expand on why you think "jiu jitsu is the gi" ?

If two black belts who have never trained anything but jiu jtisu take the gi off and roll with no strikes, what is that?

In my humble opinion comparing judo to greco is not the best analogy because one has a codified ranking system while the other does not. For that matter, BJJ does not really have a codified ranking system.

I think this is a case by case, gym by gym, system by system call. Until BJJ has uniform promotional requirements I don't think it is possible to make a blanket statement. Coincidentally and to your point, black belts crossing over to Eddie's system come over as brown belts because of the fact 10th Planet has some very unique positions that are not common in more traditional BJJ. I think you also alluded to a 10th Planet BB putting on a gi should probably wear a brown until they learn grip breaks, spider guard, and some other gi-centric moves.

I think as long as instructors are not intentionally sandbagging and students are not posing as wolves in sheeps skin its all good. It's just a belt. 

8/5/14 5:55 PM
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shark tank
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JohnnyBrabo - 
shark tank - I know a guy who is a brown belt in the 10th planet system. To my knowledge, he has not received any promotion in the gi but he wears a brown belt when he wears the gi.

He is really good but does not understand gi grips whatsoever. He does, though, utilized over hooks and under hooks really well and has a great guard.

Is his name Rick by any chance?

no
8/6/14 1:50 AM
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JohnnyBrabo
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shark tank - 
JohnnyBrabo - 
shark tank - I know a guy who is a brown belt in the 10th planet system. To my knowledge, he has not received any promotion in the gi but he wears a brown belt when he wears the gi.

He is really good but does not understand gi grips whatsoever. He does, though, utilized over hooks and under hooks really well and has a great guard.

Is his name Rick by any chance?

no

I know a guy ,we'll call him Rick, who is in the same exact situation. Told to wear a brown in the gi and hasn't been promoted in 3 years for whatever reason. Maybe politics, maybe a skill thing. He said he was expecting to be told to wear a blue and maybe get promoted faster.
8/6/14 4:01 AM
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deepu
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Bar 10th planet, are there other no gi belt systems? Phone Post 3.0
8/6/14 7:45 AM
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kancho assassin
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Jake Shields American Jiu-Jitsu Phone Post 3.0
8/6/14 7:53 AM
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CJJScout
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We had a guy start training with us recently. Did no gi for 5 years and I think was a purple belt or shirt or whatever. He obviously knew how to grapple, but was getting tapped pretty regularly in the gi by our longer tenured white belts.

Needless to say, once he figured some of that stuff out he did fairly well and got his blue belt in short order. Even no gi, he wasn't destroying our blue belts and really wasn't on the level with our purples.

So, he got his blue fast because of his knowledge and he is getting better (and I don't know if that is gi training or what) but even though he just got his blue he is a solid blue belt. Still wouldn't rank him any higher than that no gi.
8/6/14 2:56 PM
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Gward is good
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deepu - Bar 10th planet, are there other no gi belt systems? Phone Post 3.0

Neil Melanson has a ranking system. He doesn't call it Jiu-Jitsu though. He gave Randy Couture a black-belt.
8/6/14 3:07 PM
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brendan raedy
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Gward is good - 
deepu - Bar 10th planet, are there other no gi belt systems? Phone Post 3.0

Neil Melanson has a ranking system. He doesn't call it Jiu-Jitsu though. He gave Randy Couture a black-belt.

Well, 10th Planet is just BJJ without the gi.

What does Melanson consider his system? This is a serious question I am not trying to create drama. Submission Wrestling? 

8/6/14 3:39 PM
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ElPulpo
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kancho assassin - Jake Shields American Jiu-Jitsu Phone Post 3.0

What's interesting is that his brother is a Black Belt under Claudio Franca, and trains as well as competes in the gi regularly.
8/6/14 4:49 PM
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Gward is good
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brendan raedy - 
Gward is good - 
deepu - Bar 10th planet, are there other no gi belt systems? Phone Post 3.0

Neil Melanson has a ranking system. He doesn't call it Jiu-Jitsu though. He gave Randy Couture a black-belt.

Well, 10th Planet is just BJJ without the gi.

What does Melanson consider his system? This is a serious question I am not trying to create drama. Submission Wrestling? 


I don't agree that 10th Planet is BJJ without the gi. They have their own positions, techniques, philosophy and language that differs considerably from no gi BJJ. They even have their own uniform separate from the gi.


I think Melanson calls his style Catch. Not sure though.
8/6/14 5:24 PM
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Jordan Tabor
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I used to think that, but after a Bravo seminar, I realized it's a different, though related, art.
8/6/14 5:43 PM
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A_Butler
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Jiu jitsu is the gi. Imo that's the bottom line. If you didnt get promoted in Brazilian Jiu jitsu, in the gi, you are a white belt. Regardless of whatever else you've done, what nogi "system" you trained, what rank you are in judo, whatever. If you're a white belt, you're a white belt. If you have a problem wearing a white belt, that's your problem. If you train nogi and you've gotten really good, and your instructor says wear a different belt, wear a different belt. But, until you are promoted in the gi to a different belt, you wear a white belt. I don't even get why this is a question. Phone Post 3.0
8/6/14 5:54 PM
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triso
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Personally I don't understand why they have to be different. BJJ isn't the gi to me. It's just a style of grappling that emphasizes certain principles. If you're training at a BJJ school and you are a purple belt in BJJ, I think that warrants wearing a purple belt if you put a gi on, even if you're not proficient in purely gi oriented techniques. Shit you might have blackbelt level armbars and bluebelt level guillotines, but if you're a purple belt, that to me reflects your overall skill level in the art of BJJ.
8/6/14 6:49 PM
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A_Butler
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triso - Personally I don't understand why they have to be different. BJJ isn't the gi to me. It's just a style of grappling that emphasizes certain principles. If you're training at a BJJ school and you are a purple belt in BJJ, I think that warrants wearing a purple belt if you put a gi on, even if you're not proficient in purely gi oriented techniques. Shit you might have blackbelt level armbars and bluebelt level guillotines, but if you're a purple belt, that to me reflects your overall skill level in the art of BJJ.
But the overall level doesn't translate if you don't train in the gi. There are so many things you don't know if you don't train in the gi. Elite nogi guys have trouble, no matter what, when the put the gi on. I've trained with guys that ranged from collegiate wrestlers to 10 year nogi competitors with great grappling ability. They were technical and dangerous, but once they put the gi on its a completely different story. They don't know how to break grips, or even deal with them. They don't understand gi chokes, open guard techniques, yadda yadda. But, take a 10 year gi guy and have him go to nogi and all is well. With the small exception of grips in the guard. It just doesn't translate from nogi to gi.

So why consider someone a so and so belt when they can't teach, don't know the techniques, and won't perform to the level when they put a gi on? Which, BTW, is the tradition, roots, and standard by which bjj practitioners are measured and graded? It just doesn't make sense to call someone something they're not.

Obviously there are exceptions to the rule. Collegiate wrestlers are going to kill white belts. They understand GRAPPLING, not Brazilian Jiu jitsu. They can't arm bar you, key lock, guillotine, cross choke, yadda yadda, but they understand position and the general purpose of grappling. And guys that grappled nogi, and done so under Jiu jitsu instruction are going to understand submissions and sweeps and all the things make up the general framework of bjj. But, when the gi is put on, it's a completley different story. It's more like submission grappling then Brazilian Jiu jitsu, which is graded, promoted, and performed in the gi. That's my opinion. Phone Post 3.0
8/6/14 6:52 PM
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Randy Bloom
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My oppion only.

You wear a belt to hold your gi together in "all" martial arts.

There is no such thing as a no-gi black belt in karate, judo, taekwondo etc.

Get over it.

Earn your black belt by wearing a gi.


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