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BJJGround Forum >> Helio Gracie's Black Belt Promotion Rules


8/7/14 12:55 PM
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dokomoy
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All the talk going on in other threads about the IBJJF's rules for promotion got me wondering about what Helio's rules for black belt promotion were. I know he had a different system than the IBJJF for awarding stripes(for example Jean Jacques Machado got his Red/Black belt from Rickson Gracie before the man who promoted him to blackbelt got his Red/Black).

My two main questions are what are the requirments to be promoted after you recieve your black belt, is it by time(I've heard 1 stripe every 3 years) or are there other factors(Ryron has his 4th degree but hasn't been a black belt long enough to have gotten it by just being promoted every 3 years). Alos, did Helio have any rule similar to the IBJJF's rule about needing to be a second degree black belt in order to promote others to black belt?
8/7/14 1:01 PM
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JosephConnolly
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Ryron said that Helio gave him two at one time and it wasn't like he could refuse.
8/7/14 3:05 PM
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BTTMike
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In for knowledge.

But yeah didn't Rener and Ryron both receive additional stripes on their black belts from their grandfather Helio? Phone Post 3.0
8/7/14 3:38 PM
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rayonyx7
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Did Helio and the brothers have any rhyme or reason to belts?
I'm interested as well.

They started out with 3 belts (white, blue, and light blue), if memory serves, and eventually moved to the judo dan system. For a while Rickson out ranked Rorion and then Rorion got 9th and Rickson is now an 8th? I thought I read somewhere when asked why Rickson out ranked Rorion, Helio said because he had the best GJJ among his sons.
Ryron and Rener received additional stripes on their belts from Helio. Pedro Valente (Gracie Miami) is a 5th or 6th, his dad is a 9th red belt.
8/7/14 3:48 PM
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graciesrule
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dokomoy - All the talk going on in other threads about the IBJJF's rules for promotion got me wondering about what Helio's rules for black belt promotion were. I know he had a different system than the IBJJF for awarding stripes(for example Jean Jacques Machado got his Red/Black belt from Rickson Gracie before the man who promoted him to blackbelt got his Red/Black).

My two main questions are what are the requirments to be promoted after you recieve your black belt, is it by time(I've heard 1 stripe every 3 years) or are there other factors(Ryron has his 4th degree but hasn't been a black belt long enough to have gotten it by just being promoted every 3 years). Alos, did Helio have any rule similar to the IBJJF's rule about needing to be a second degree black belt in order to promote others to black belt?

Who did JJM get his black belt from? Because if you were thinking Carlos Jr he was wearing 8 th in the early 2000's and then demoted himself to 7 th to follow the guideline of IBJJF.
8/7/14 3:52 PM
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graciesrule
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rayonyx7 - Did Helio and the brothers have any rhyme or reason to belts?
I'm interested as well.

They started out with 3 belts (white, blue, and light blue), if memory serves, and eventually moved to the judo dan system. For a while Rickson out ranked Rorion and then Rorion got 9th and Rickson is now an 8th? I thought I read somewhere when asked why Rickson out ranked Rorion, Helio said because he had the best GJJ among his sons.
Ryron and Rener received additional stripes on their belts from Helio. Pedro Valente (Gracie Miami) is a 5th or 6th, his dad is a 9th red belt.

This,
I have an old magazine from 1989 where Rorion was a 6 th degree and Rickson 7 th degree, then Rorion jump up from 6 th to 8 th in a couple of years then 9 th in 2003. I also have a flyer from a seminar from both UFC 1& 2 and they both have Relson at 5 th degree and Royler/Rolker both at 4 th like Royce was.
8/7/14 5:23 PM
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Markus Barrett
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barrett jiujitsu, instructor

after black belt it does not matter.   3 years for 1st and 2nd stripe.  5 years for each stripe after that.  up to a maximum of 9th degree  = thats the general rule.  

the coral belt is retirement from fighting = 20 years of being black belt????

the red belt is retirement from teaching = 20 years of teaching

 

now....how to get the black belt....thats really all that matters.

8/7/14 5:35 PM
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TheBearStare
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why do i think most high ranking black belts dont give shit and we care more then they do?
8/7/14 6:30 PM
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Robobear
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I started in1991 with Relson, he was a sixth degree black belt.  This was before the UFC.  It's been cool watching him all these years and now a red belt.  I will tell you he has not changed at all, a little older maybe, but the same passion and dedication he had all those years ago.

8/7/14 6:32 PM
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Robobear
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About Ryron and Rener, I've not taken a class or seminar from Ryron, but I have with Rener.  He is a phenomenal instructor with a much deeper understanding of the art than most black belts.  Helio said thats the reason they were promoted with degrees, because of their understanding of the system, his system.

8/7/14 8:00 PM
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dokomoy
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graciesrule - 
dokomoy - All the talk going on in other threads about the IBJJF's rules for promotion got me wondering about what Helio's rules for black belt promotion were. I know he had a different system than the IBJJF for awarding stripes(for example Jean Jacques Machado got his Red/Black belt from Rickson Gracie before the man who promoted him to blackbelt got his Red/Black).

My two main questions are what are the requirments to be promoted after you recieve your black belt, is it by time(I've heard 1 stripe every 3 years) or are there other factors(Ryron has his 4th degree but hasn't been a black belt long enough to have gotten it by just being promoted every 3 years). Alos, did Helio have any rule similar to the IBJJF's rule about needing to be a second degree black belt in order to promote others to black belt?

Who did JJM get his black belt from? Because if you were thinking Carlos Jr he was wearing 8 th in the early 2000's and then demoted himself to 7 th to follow the guideline of IBJJF.

Jean Jacques got his black belt from Carlos Gracie JR, that's why I used them as an example. I didn't know Carlos demoted himself that's interesting I imagine he got his 8th degree under the system that Helio(or maybe his dad? or both) used and then demoted himself because he hadn't been a black belt long enough to earn his 8th degree in the new IBJJF system.

If anybody knows I'd be interested in hearing why they decided to change the system.
8/7/14 8:03 PM
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dokomoy
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TheBearStare - why do i think most high ranking black belts dont give shit and we care more then they do?

I don't care that much about it, I'm not mad about it or anything(certainly I didn't mean to imply that anyones promotion was illegitimate because it didn't reflect the IBJJF's standards). I just think learning more about the history of our art is interesting.

If anyone knows I'm still interested to know what requirements the older system had for being able to promote to black belt(i.e did you have to be a 2nd degree black belt to promote someone to black belt like you do under IBJJF)
8/8/14 2:20 AM
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graciesrule
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Robobear - 

I started in1991 with Relson, he was a sixth degree black belt.  This was before the UFC.  It's been cool watching him all these years and now a red belt.  I will tell you he has not changed at all, a little older maybe, but the same passion and dedication he had all those years ago.


That's pretty sad Rorion didn't know his own brothers rank, lol. The flyer came from him.
8/8/14 2:51 AM
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TheBearStare
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dokomoy -
TheBearStare - why do i think most high ranking black belts dont give shit and we care more then they do?

I don't care that much about it, I'm not mad about it or anything(certainly I didn't mean to imply that anyones promotion was illegitimate because it didn't reflect the IBJJF's standards). I just think learning more about the history of our art is interesting.

If anyone knows I'm still interested to know what requirements the older system had for being able to promote to black belt(i.e did you have to be a 2nd degree black belt to promote someone to black belt like you do under IBJJF)
No offense was meant and I wasnt aiming at anyone. It was just an observation. Sorry if it came off the wrong way. Phone Post 3.0
8/8/14 5:32 AM
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Robobear
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graciesrule - 
Robobear - 

I started in1991 with Relson, he was a sixth degree black belt.  This was before the UFC.  It's been cool watching him all these years and now a red belt.  I will tell you he has not changed at all, a little older maybe, but the same passion and dedication he had all those years ago.


That's pretty sad Rorion didn't know his own brothers rank, lol. The flyer came from him.

True story; at Relson's Red belt promotion, Rorion presented Relson with the red belt.  Upon further inspection by Relson, it had only 8 stripes, supposed to be 9.  Sam Mahi put the ninth stripe on for Relson because Rorion had left the building.

8/8/14 1:10 PM
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biggator
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they said it was a joke and that there was the perfect amount of space left on the bar for it iirc.

trained with both of these guys at seminars and feel damn lucky. jealous of you guys that got years with them.
8/9/14 7:15 PM
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graciesrule
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Many years ago Rickson did an article about Helio's black belt promotions and said fighting ability could bring you up to 7 th degree under Helio and just 8 th and above were just honorary. You could still move up to high ranks based on teaching too but it takes more time. At the time he was 7 th degree and the highest rank of Helio's sons. He went on to say that there was 30 really great guys in Rio and 5 top guys and he beat the top 5 in consecutive matches.
8/10/14 2:06 AM
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Jack Taufer
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graciesrule - Many years ago Rickson did an article about Helio's black belt promotions and said fighting ability could bring you up to 7 th degree under Helio and just 8 th and above were just honorary. You could still move up to high ranks based on teaching too but it takes more time. At the time he was 7 th degree and the highest rank of Helio's sons. He went on to say that there was 30 really great guys in Rio and 5 top guys and he beat the top 5 in consecutive matches.
I would love to set this Phone Post 3.0

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