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Scott Sonnon >> knee bar mechanics?


4/26/02 2:27 AM
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bounce
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Edited: 26-Apr-02
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 64
 
Scott, Can you explain the mechanics of the knee bars and some of the grip options from here? What is the principle of it? Presently, most of knee bar attempts fail (99% of the time). Is the pressure caused by the squeezing of the knees? thanx in advance
4/26/02 12:25 PM
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Sonnon
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Edited: 26-Apr-02
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 176
What's the purpose of the application? 1. Hyperfunction - to elicit movement 2. Immobilization - to prohibit movement 3. Submission - to inflict pain 4. Dysfunction - to inflict injury There are an infinite number of variations. Each coach tends to prefer to teach a few varied methods. There is no absolute way, so I can't answer your question. When you approached your coach with your problems with the skill, what were his impressions and responses? What specific problems have you experienced? Describe the actual event, and I'll see if we can't troubleshoot your application. Fraternal, Scott
4/26/02 2:56 PM
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bounce
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Edited: 26-Apr-02
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The purpose would be for submission. I was taught to grab the ankle of the leg i'm attacking with both hands sit back and place his knee right above my groin area. I pinch my knees, straightem my back. But so far, every body has been telling me, that it doesn't hurt. And then usually muscle out of it. Is there a grip, an angle, a control tip which makes it next to impossible to muscle out of? Cause I usually end up directly perpendicular to my opponent and they can just bend their legs to stop it. This is a submission that I worked on, so I tend to use wayyyy too much strength.
4/27/02 9:28 AM
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Sonnon
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Edited: 27-Apr-02
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
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Bounce, Who coached you in this fashion and how dis he respond to this technique problem? Have you screwed the knee at all (as in sliding down a pole), rather than merely pulling it backward as in a lever?
4/27/02 1:33 PM
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Samooborona
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Edited: 27-Apr-02
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Posts: 37
Bounce, Like Scott said, there is no one answer to it, as there are varying ways to apply it for the purpose. Part of it is going to be in your setup.. a tactic known is a tactic blown. If we're pretty equal, and you take too long in securing it (relative speed, not actual speed)I've got a good chance of protecting myself... Scott's suggestion on working the knee as a screw rather than a lever is dead on, if you insist on levering the leg instead, try the following.. Chances are, you are waaaaayyyyy too deep. If I'm trying to lock out your knee, then I don't want my thighs locked down near your hip. squeeze the "teardrop" of your quadriceps on the same part of his quads. (by teardrop, I mean the large portion of meat at the bottom of your quad, above your knee)This should be pretty tight and uncomfortable by itself. instead of grabbing his ankle with your hands, wrap your arms around it. His hamstring is most likely stronger than your wrist. By grabbing with your hands, you allow him the option of countering your wrist strength with his considerably stronger hamstring. by wrapping your arms around it, and hugging it tight, now his hamstring has to fight your arms, upper and lower back, and hips. While squeezing his lower thigh with yours, push your hip down and forward, while arching your back with the arms tight. You should be pretty secure, so apply the pressure slow!
4/27/02 2:35 PM
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tysaw
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Edited: 27-Apr-02
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
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Bounce, I do the kneebar as Scott described...I squeeze my knees, dig my heels into oppt.'s butt, and I slide up his leg (like I am elongating it). I have done it this way for some time and it works well, before you get to the end of the leg they will be vigorously tapping. What is new to me, is I just got Scott's AK and in it he describes doing this same thing to the straight arm bar (sinew separation). It is exactly the same as the knee bar and now I know how/why/when it works...thanks to AK and Scott. This has opened up a ton of new doors to my understanding of subs and their uses. Bruce
4/27/02 7:33 PM
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bounce
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Edited: 27-Apr-02
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Jesus Christ! Everybody thanx for your tips! Samborona, my set ups might be part of the problem. But one quick question: how do I exactly "screw?" Do i work the grip from his upper leg towards his ankle gradually applying pressure and i move down the leg? Scott, My coach didn't teach me the knee bar. I learned it from a bjj purple belt I train with. ( I don't "formally" train anymore) The problem he said was that i don't squeeze my knees tight enough.
4/29/02 12:30 PM
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Samooborona
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Edited: 29-Apr-02
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By screwing the leg, rather than extending it like you've been shown (a lever) picture the way a heel hook turns the lower leg. holding onto the kneebar, try and turn his lower leg in the same manner, while pulling the lower leg down, as if you were trying to lengthen his leg. It's a poor description, but text is a poor medium to describe movement.
4/29/02 2:21 PM
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Sonnon
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Edited: 29-Apr-02
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 187
Todd and Bruce, keep up the great advice. I'm going to have a special new "house-guest" anyday now and can't get online like I used to.
4/29/02 5:43 PM
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rinpoche
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Edited: 29-Apr-02
Member Since: 24-Apr-02
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My $0.02 knee locks (bars) work exactly the same way every other joint lock works - 2 directional pressure. One pressure should be behind the ankle and the other just above the knee. This makes the lever. Using this principle you can make an infinite variety of knee locks using every part of your body.
4/29/02 7:59 PM
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tysaw
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Edited: 29-Apr-02
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
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Scott, are you having a little one? If so, congrats. It will indeed change things...for the better. :-0
4/30/02 12:24 AM
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Sonnon
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Edited: 30-Apr-02
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 190
Bruce, thanks... I am. Our first. Nothing better in life.
4/30/02 7:26 AM
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paw
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Edited: 30-Apr-02
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Cool. Congrats!
4/30/02 9:03 AM
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Cilian McHugh
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Edited: 30-Apr-02
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
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Congratulations Scott
4/30/02 10:38 AM
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donthatetheplayer
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Edited: 30-Apr-02
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Congratulations Scott
4/30/02 1:58 PM
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Renshi
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Edited: 30-Apr-02
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1. Hyperfunction - to elicit movement 2. Immobilization - to prohibit movement 3. Submission - to inflict pain 4. Dysfunction - to inflict injury " Could you cover all four? BTW congrats!
4/30/02 2:24 PM
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Sonnon
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Edited: 30-Apr-02 02:27 PM
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 193
Thanks all. Really. Renshi, do you have the Arthrokinetics video series? I cover them all indepth there. I crafted the series to make my system absolutely accessible to you.
4/30/02 2:32 PM
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Renshi
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Edited: 30-Apr-02
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 37
What do you reccomend first, Fisticuffs or Arthrokinetics. Im going to pick up both.
4/30/02 4:22 PM
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Sonnon
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Edited: 30-Apr-02
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 195
ROSS as a system of performance enhancement first and foremost addresses your unique needs and desires. You will not find an "Absolute" agenda to follow in ROSS, but rather on your own as a Self-Coach or through consultation with a professional ROSS Coach, you craft a personalized program of instruction to achieve your needs and desires. So, what are your training goals? In other words, why have you come to ROSS? Answering these answers your question.
5/1/02 12:50 PM
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PoundforPound
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Edited: 01-May-02
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 87
LOL at groundfighter2000. Congrats on the new addition to your tribe, Scott.

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