UnderGround Forums
 

DantheWolfMan UnderGround >> Tony. Advice about Vagus nerve


7/4/03 1:54 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Flashman
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 04-Jul-03
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 33
 
Tony, The supervisor of my department has suddenly got a bee in his bonnet about the possibility of the SPEAR stimulating the vagus nerve and causing cardiac arrest. He is mainly concerned about this happening to an officer duting training. He has expressed these concerns via a Fax so I have not had to reply to him yet. We have only just this year got our SPEAR programme up and running so I don't want it sabotaged by a boss having undue concerns about litigation. Can you please give me some advice on how I can dispel his fears. My knowledge of the physiology of the vagus nerve is not sufficient. Thanks, Gary
7/5/03 2:17 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
FJJ828
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 05-Jul-03
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 672
NAPLES BRAZILIAN JIU JITSU L.L.C.
Tell him that frequent vagus nerve stimulation (via SPEAR training) will prevent seizures, treat depression, develop pain & fear management ability and give officers the edge they need to get through a hostile ambush confrontation. Just kidding. I guess there are all kinds of people out there that can come up with clinical reasons not to have any "hands on" during "hands on" training. My favorite is the threat of ringworm.
7/5/03 7:59 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Tony Blauer
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 05-Jul-03 08:02 AM
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 546
Blauer Tactical Systems, Inc.
Gary, While Fletch is sadly correct, there are those who dont understand that NOT training is far more dangerous THAN training...and 'they' are always looking for a reason to limit training or shut it down. As youre from the UK, some thoughts below may not apply directly however the gist and essence is clear. Example 1: There's never been a training death at the Kodakan as a result of practicing carotid restraints, yet neck restraints are now banned in many places because of isolated incidents where global knee jerk decisions pull the 'offending' tactic from the LEO's arsenal. Example 2: According to current FBI data, over the last 10 years 9 deaths occured during FIREARMS training sessions and there were an additional 29 accidental deaths related to FIREARMS... During that same 10 year period there have been NO deaths during SPEAR System training. In other words, there are many contradictions and paradoxes in the training community. Ive also approached two doctors on our advisory borad for thier opions as well, as soon as I have them in theyll be posted. TOny
7/5/03 1:47 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Flashman
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 05-Jul-03
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 35
Fjj828, you wouldn't believe how many British Police Officers don't train. It makes you wonder sometimes. Coach Blauer, the statistics you posted are very relevant to the UK and I'll make my supervisor aware of them, thanks for the help. Incidently, I was looking forward to the Ground Fighting seminar in Warwickshire UK that was cancelled. Have you been able to fix another date for this year. Much respect, Gary.
7/5/03 3:44 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
FJJ828
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 05-Jul-03
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 679
NAPLES BRAZILIAN JIU JITSU L.L.C.
Flashman, Tony's Ground Combatives course was one of my favorites. Lots of great information and a lot of "lightbulb" moments.
7/5/03 8:26 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Tony Blauer
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 05-Jul-03
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 548
Blauer Tactical Systems, Inc.
Gary, We are doing an OFFICER SURVIVAL SCHOOL in London in December through the Metropolitan Police...email me Ill send you the details. Tony
7/5/03 10:51 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Eric Cobb
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 05-Jul-03
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 42
Gary: There is a condition known as Commotio Cordis that results in cardiac arrest after a blow to the chest. It is very rare, however. The majority of the time the arrest results from an impact by a baseball, softball, lacrosse ball, or hockey puck. It is so rare because it has to be a blow struck at the precisely correct 15 or so milliseconds in precisely the right location during a precise moment of the heart's electrical cycle. In other words, it's a totally freak occurrence that is impossible to predict. Since 1998, 128 cases have been reported in the United States - meaning 25-26 deaths each year. There may be more cases that are undiagnosed or unreported as well. However, that number needs to be kept in perspective in relation to the # of deaths from other causes. Statistically speaking it looks like the one year odds of this happening to someone are around 1 in 10,000,000. That number should be contrasted to the odds of being struck by lightning which are about 1 in 650,000. It's a scary thing to ponder, but it's incredibly rare. It's so rare in fact that many physicians have never heard of it, either in training or practice. Here are some statistics related to the condition: In the US: Actual occurrence of CC among US youngsters is largely unknown. Although more than 128 cases have been reported to the US CC Registry (Minneapolis, Minn), the entity still is not widely recognized and usually goes unreported. Mortality/Morbidity: Successful resuscitation and survival occurred in approximately 15% of CC cases reported to the US CC Registry. Race: According to data collected by the US CC Registry, 87% of CC patients are white. Sex: According to data collected by the US CC Registry, 95% of CC patients are male. Age: CC occurs most frequently in male children aged 4-16 years, with a mean age of 14 years. The latest data from the US CC Registry report that 43% are younger than 12 years and only 22% are 18 years or older. According to data collected by the US CC Registry, at the time of the incident, 62% of persons who were struck were engaged in organized competitive sports, and 38% were involved in normal daily activities or recreational sports. Chest blows during daily nonathletic activities accounted for approximately 12% of cases. Baseball, softball, and hockey are the sports activities involved most commonly. Other organized activities included karate, lacrosse, and football. Rare cases also have been associated with basketball, cricket, martial arts, boxing, street fights, and motor vehicle accidents. In most instances (68%), the person was struck by a projectile, which most commonly was a pitched, thrown, or batted baseball or softball, estimated to be traveling at 30-50 mph at most. Other projectiles have included hockey pucks and lacrosse balls. In 32%, chest trauma was from bodily contact with another person or a stationary object. Examples of this have included a player's helmet during a football tackle, the heel of a hockey stick, a karate kick, and body collision. I hope this helps allay any concerns with regards to the SPEAR for your supervisor. Dr. C
7/6/03 6:44 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Tony Blauer
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 06-Jul-03
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 553
Blauer Tactical Systems, Inc.
Excellent researching Eric, thanks. TOny
7/6/03 8:10 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Flashman
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 06-Jul-03
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 36
Dr Cobb, thanks for that information, it will be of great help to me. Tony, I'll e-mail you right away about the course in London. Regards, Gary.

Reply Post

You must log in to post a reply. Click here to login.