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TMA UnderGround >> Hapkido (if it's real)


1/20/04 3:50 PM
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lkfmdc
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Edited: 20-Jan-04
Member Since: 01/01/2001
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More than 20 years ago I was doing Hapkido alongside Taekwondo. I didn't know much about Hapkido, to me it was just "Korean Judo" or something, I wanted to do flying kicks and get my "black belt" :) But in retrospect, a lot of good skills I have I started learning in the Hapkido classes My instructor, sadly now deceased, was a legit 6th dan in Hapkido, was an even more rate legit 7th dan in TKD when he came over. NO "airplane promotion" for him.. He said a lot of guys just learned some hapkido to add to their programs, or that people were changing Hapkido.. at the time we had no idea what he was talking about I moved on to other arts and training, but I almost accidently bumped back into Hapkido in the last few years, discovering what the original art looked like (and what we did those many years ago was not 100% but was pretty darn close) and what it was composed of, etc I still don't think I would have stayed with Hapkido even if I was getting the pure original system back then, but I have a lot of respect for it, especially as probably the best of all the Korean arts... And I still sort of guess that it effects other things that I still do today
1/20/04 4:06 PM
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Willybone
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Edited: 20-Jan-04
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I studied it for 3 years under Master David Herbert in NYC and really enjoyed it. Even before that, when I was taking TKD in CT, all of our "self-defense" stuff was based on HKD.

As I understand the origins of the art, it was what happened when aikijitsu came to Korea. So, it started out as an acquired art and they continued to acquire techniques from other arts. My sabumnim was very open about that fact that much of what he taught was either taken from another art, like chi gung, or was paralleled in another art, like chin na or aikido. I've seen Korean HKD demos that clearly utilize a number of judo techniques. A lot of our forms looked almost EXACTLY like some karate forms, move for move.

So, I see it as a hybrid art, or at least an art open to importing and assimilating ideas. This is one of things I like about it. Several practitioners of other traditional arts have commented to me that our school seemed bent on being able to do EVERYTHING, and I took that as a compliment.


I agree that it's the best of the Korean arts (unbiased, of course). I think it's a great art. My school may not have churned out any full-contact champs, but some of the most impressive martial artists I've worked with were students there.
1/20/04 4:12 PM
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lkfmdc
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Edited: 20-Jan-04
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My teacher never taught forms, we did the TKD ones, not HKD ones, and even the organization that is now in Korea doing the "original" Hapkido says its forms are new inventions, ie they made them up, Yong Shul Choi did not teach any forms Choi learned most of his stuff in Japan, he was actually kidnapped from Korea as slave labor during WW II. He apparently came back and fused what he had learned with some native Korean stuff (what was left) Good self defense stuff, logically arranged for teaching purposes, again, probably the most in depth of the Korean arts, though I haven't seen much REAL Tae Kyon
1/20/04 4:28 PM
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Willybone
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Edited: 20-Jan-04
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he was actually kidnapped from Korea as slave labor during WW II
LOL!
I laugh because I've read accounts that range from "Slave boy" to "Adopted son". Given what little I know about Korea and Japan during WW2, I'd believe your version.

I took TKD for a while in CT. I used to get especially enthusiastic about our self-defense stuff because it was fluid, intuitive, and painful. One day I said to my teacher, "This stuff is very different than everything else we do."
"Oh, that stuff is hapkido", he told me.
Years later, when I was looking for a TKD school, I mistakenly walked into a HKD school and remembered all those techs I used to love. I signed up as soon as possible.
1/20/04 4:55 PM
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lkfmdc
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Edited: 20-Jan-04
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I would tend to side with my version as well, knowing what I know about Japanese-Korean relations in the 20th C....
1/20/04 7:34 PM
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warmonky
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Edited: 20-Jan-04
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How much grappling is in Hapkido. Is Yudo exactly the same as Judo but in Korean?
1/21/04 10:41 AM
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Willybone
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Edited: 21-Jan-04
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The grappling I learned in hapkido class was primarily standing wrist/arm locks (like aikido), a few chokes, restraint and submission holds on an opponent that's down, and some takedowns that were close to osotogari, ogoshi, and haraigoshi. These things were all taught to us as hapkido.

In addition, we also learned some basic judo newaza like pin escapes and subs (armbar, chokes). There was an seperate judo class, too, and advanced students were strongly encouraged to go to.

I really don't know anything about yudo, except that it's judo in Korea. I think they use slightly different rules.
1/21/04 1:24 PM
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glock4life
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Edited: 21-Jan-04
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My instructor told us that Hapkido didn't have any forms. He also said that in Korea, no HKD instructors had forms. He was always a bit miffed by HKD schools that had forms in their system. But there definately are some very legit HKD instructors that use forms, Fariborz Azakh in L.A. comes to mind.

I was told the adopted son story as well btw. He allegedly was adopted into the family of the head guy who taught Aikijujitsu in Japan (name escapes me right now), which was the same guy who taught Ueshiba. Somewhere on the internet I remember reading a very detailed acoount of his life, and a lot of stories about his original style which was Yu Sool.

4/19/04 3:22 AM
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Shawn C
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Edited: 19-Apr-04
Member Since: 01/06/2001
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While reading about HKD, I found a interview with Hapkido's founder, Choi Yong Sul. He explains how he was kidnapped and how he learned from Takeda Sokaku. http://www.hapkido-info.net/html/hapkido_info.com.html Hapkido seems like an interesting art. There's a school near me that teaches TKD, HKD, and Judo that I'm thinking about checking out.
5/2/04 7:38 PM
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Bob&Weave
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Edited: 02-May-04
Member Since: 05/08/2002
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Fariborz Azakh got his dan from Ji, Han Jae. I know Ji Han Jae doesn't use any forms. Did Azakh develop these forms on his own?
5/6/04 1:14 PM
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Bull_in_chinashop
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Edited: 06-May-04
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yudo = judo.
5/6/04 10:15 PM
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taputoo
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Edited: 06-May-04
Member Since: 04/11/2004
Posts: 64
Bob&weave, I believe he did add them himself.
6/4/04 9:56 AM
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MarkT
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Edited: 04-Jun-04
Member Since: 01/01/2001
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Ummm..... Unlocking the Secrets of Aiki-jujutsu questions if anyone in Daito-ryu ever made it to Korea.
6/4/04 10:39 AM
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Willybone
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Edited: 04-Jun-04
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Unlocking the Secrets of Aiki-jujutsu questions if anyone in Daito-ryu ever made it to Korea.
Do they dispute that Yong Shul Choi knew any aiki? Do they offer an explanation of where HKD got the techniques, like another school maybe? Because much of what I learned looks, to me, identical to what I see in aikido classes.
6/4/04 2:54 PM
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MarkT
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Edited: 04-Jun-04
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I'd have to did it out and re-read it. It is an excellent work that I highly recommend.
6/7/04 1:07 PM
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Willybone
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Edited: 07-Jun-04
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I might check it out. I don't have any aiki reference books. Is it mostly historical, or does it cover techniques, too?

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