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TMA UnderGround >> is kenpo worth it


2/13/04 6:00 PM
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steeler16
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Edited: 13-Feb-04
Member Since: 05/12/2002
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I have 8yrs exp in mma mostly training it. there is a kid i know opening up a kenpo school. i told him i would take clases if i can have my own time to grapple and hit the bags my way. Him and most of his guys don't buy into the ufc stuff. Am i going to get annoyed or is there a way to combine both
2/14/04 1:21 PM
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NowhereMan22000
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Edited: 14-Feb-04
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I agree with whitebelt - on the face of it, it may look disrespectful or challenging, at the least a bit odd to the rest of the students. Now if you could do a bit of provate training with the kenpo guy and change his mind about MMA and then include some of that in the syllabus - that could be an ideal situation.
2/15/04 6:46 AM
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Hillbilly
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Edited: 15-Feb-04
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Why would you want to do that? Show everyone what a big bad MMA`ist you are?
2/15/04 9:40 PM
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TRAINWRECK
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Edited: 15-Feb-04
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Maybe just try to get a block of time outside of class. Maybe come early, stay late, and be cool during the regular class.
2/17/04 11:02 PM
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steeler16
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Edited: 17-Feb-04
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i would not be disrespectful at all. it is the closest place for me to use a mat and hit a bag. Now if one of them tries to get smart like some tma guys do then i may spar with a little inovation. i have never been against tma. i think kenpo seems ok. I just don't like it when mma gets dissed because of ignorance. Some of these kenpo guys are cool some of them believe in a the anti ground myth. all i am saying is i would be willing to open my mind to there style and tech. maybe we could find a common ground.
2/17/04 11:41 PM
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TheLoneYinzer
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Edited: 17-Feb-04
Member Since: 09/11/2002
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"I just don't like it when mma gets dissed because of ignorance. Some of these kenpo guys are cool some of them believe in a the anti ground myth" I love evangelists. That said, I firmly agree that there are some pricks in the TMA camp. Just don't get so blinded by them that you start becoming the flip side to the coin. Have fun, hit the bags hard, and sink those chokes.
2/18/04 7:14 AM
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tjmitch
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Edited: 18-Feb-04
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Depending on which branch of the Ken(m)po family tree you are on, you may very well learn some very effective MA.
3/5/04 1:28 PM
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damaebushi
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Edited: 05-Mar-04
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It definitely depends on a few factors. What brand of Kenpo is it? There are many, many styles that use the word Kenpo in them. For example, I study Okinawa Shorin Ryu Matsumura Kenpo. We do not look like the American Kenpo of Ed Parker's lineage very much. It also depends on the instructor, as is the case with every other style/discipline. Even if the core curriculum is the same, the way it is taught by different instructors may vary greatly. Again, in my case, I know I teach differently and with different emphasis than others within our style. In many cases, I would not want to be confused with the other instructors. As for your dilema about doint MMA workouts in a TMA enviornment, for what it's worth, here's how I address that in my dojo. I teach TMA classes five times per week. I believe there is a lot of useful crossover from the TMA that I teach to MMA. On Mondays and Thursdays, I have a second class where I focus specifically on MMA conditioning and techniques. On Saturday mornings, the first half of the 2 hr. class is warm ups, stretches, and some viogorous basics. The last hour is open dojo where students can work on anything they want, including MMA, and get individual help if they like. Maybe this guy you are referring to would be open to something like that? Maybe worth a try to ask. Respectfully: Fred Ettish
3/5/04 9:10 PM
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tjmitch
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Edited: 05-Mar-04
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damaebushi, could you give a brief history of the style of kenpo you study? I am much more familiar with the Chow-Mitose side of the family tree. From the "shorin" in the name of the style, I would assume there are some chinnese roots, have you seen any chinese styles where you could see some "family resembalance"? BTW, I am glad you found your way over here.
3/6/04 3:27 PM
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springy palm
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Edited: 06-Mar-04
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Many guys that compete in American kickboxing come from kenpo(kempo) karate. most of the kickboxers that do come from kenpo are none for there punching skills because most kenpo schools have a huge emphasiece on hand and punching techniques. "I believe there is a lot of useful crossover from the TMA that I teach to MMA." Your right and that goes to every martial art. I studied Swimming Body Bagua,Snake kung fu and Capeoira and found out alot of techniques that work well in MMA scenerios. Plain and simple, discared that Bruce Lee theory that states "Take what works and get rid of the rest", and replace it with "How can i make this work" you will notice things about you system that you never none. Fred Ettish I am honoured to see you post here, your one of the first warriors that competed in the early UFC's. I hope to see some of your students fight in MMA, I always thought your system is interesting.
3/7/04 11:08 AM
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damaebushi
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Edited: 07-Mar-04
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tjmitch: A very brief history/linege of the style I study is as follows: As with all Shorin Ryu, Matsumura Kiyo (Bushi) was the founder. He trained in China quite a bit and had much contact with Chinese martial artists in Okinawa. He had a lot of students (by Okinawan standards of the time). From him, our style goes through his grandson, Matsumura Nabe. Nabe had only one true student who spent any time amount of time with him, and that was his nephew, Soken Hohan, who taught what today is referred to by most as Matsumura Seito Shorin Ryu. He died in 1982 at almost 92 years of age. Soken had quite a few students, and there is MUCH dispute as to who, if anyone, was his true "successor". Our style goes through one of his senior students, Kuda Yuichi. Kuda Yuichi formed Matsumura Kenpo in 1972 - 73, largely because of all the disputes as to who was going to be Soken's successor, who his #1 student was, who was doing Soken's style correctly and who wasn't, etc. Kuda Yuichi had other instructors who influenced his karate, also, the most significant of whom was Nakamura Shigeru of Okinawa Kenpo. Kuda Yuichi passed away on 27 April of 1999 and the style is now headed up by his eldest son, Kuda Tomosada. The style is very complex and in addition to empty hand, includes it's own system of kobudo (weapons). We have most of the typical Shorin Ryu katas, as well as some katas developed by Kuda Yuichi which are unique to our style. Most of the Kobudo that we practice is also unique to our style. There is a lot more, but to keep this post from getting even longer, I will leave it at that. Respectfully: Fred
3/7/04 11:10 AM
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damaebushi
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Edited: 07-Mar-04
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springypalm: Thank you for the kind words and the warm welcome. Respectfully: Fred
3/7/04 12:19 PM
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tjmitch
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Edited: 07-Mar-04
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Has anyone ever done any sort of "matial archiology" to find what sort of CMA Matsumura Kiyo may have learned? There are some interesting similarities in the Chow-mitose lineage to some of the southern styles of kung fu, such as use of half fist/ lepoard paw type strikes, and other sort of unusual hand formations. I was wondering if you have even seen any CMA that looked familiar. The whole ken/mpo evolution fasinates me. I would love to see as many styles of ken/mpo as possible looking for similiarites and differences.
3/7/04 12:38 PM
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damaebushi
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Edited: 07-Mar-04
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There is no way of tracing the evolution of Okinawan Karate, Kenpo, etc. with any degree of certainty. Unfortunately, most of what we know today is word of mouth, and as is the case with that, it depends on who's doing the telling. One is forced to believe what makes the most sense, but there is no empirical evidence to give rock solid proof. Okinawans lost just about every shred of written history during the horrendous battle for Okinawa in WWII. FWIW, from what I have read and been told (mainly by my Okinawan teachers), Matsumura Kiyo's first instructor was Sakugawa, who learned a lot from a Chinese who practiced a Southern Shaolin style. Matsumura himself is said to have traveled to Fukien Province in Southern China and stayed there for a considerable time studying Southern Shaolin. Most of the Chinese people who traveled to Okinawa were from South China. Shorin Ryu is said to be a blending of Southern Shaolin Kung Fu and the indigenous art of Okinawa Te. Again, I emphasize that this is only what I am told, is very general due to keeping the post brief, and I could not provide anyone with iron clad evidence if I had to prove it all. From my limited experience, it does make sense. Respectfully: Fred
3/7/04 3:06 PM
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NowhereMan22000
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Edited: 07-Mar-04
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ttt for Fred Ettish. What a great contributor already to the TMA forum!
3/7/04 5:03 PM
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tjmitch
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Edited: 07-Mar-04
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"most of what we know today is word of mouth, and as is the case with that, it depends on who's doing the telling" Aint that the truth.
3/10/04 5:39 PM
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steeler16
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Edited: 10-Mar-04
Member Since: 05/12/2002
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it is ed parkers kenpo. some of these guys are ufc comprehending the others are not. the head instructor thought it was fixed and kind of fake. yet know he is open to grappling. i just want to hit the bags and grapple. I will take it with an open mind but if i see something we all know most likely would not work. should i say something or just let them go on believing in it.
3/23/04 9:04 AM
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Dark Knight
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Edited: 23-Mar-04
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"I will take it with an open mind but if i see something we all know most likely would not work. should i say something or just let them go on believing in it. " Go with an open mind, you will prob find they also have an open mind. Ed Parker created the style with an open mind, his students should be the same. Today the top ranking people in Parker Kenpo have changed it drastically based on experience of meeting guys in MMA or other styles. Look at Huk Planas, he does a lot more stick fighting from working with Danny Inosanto.
3/23/04 3:25 PM
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FlashGordon2002
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Edited: 23-Mar-04
Member Since: 05/23/2002
Posts: 3235
I think some hot chicks might take kenpo.
4/9/04 9:14 PM
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1groovyunit
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Edited: 09-Apr-04
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 4320
Empty Your Cup

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