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DantheWolfMan UnderGround >> Tony's opinion on carrying a knife

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4/5/04 7:41 PM
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TaiZen
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Edited: 05-Apr-04
Member Since: 03/18/2002
Posts: 48
 
I am sure this has been asked many times before but....does Tony advocate carrying a knife for personal protection?
4/6/04 10:49 AM
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JMullings
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Edited: 06-Apr-04 10:43 AM
Member Since: 01/31/2002
Posts: 249
Not sure when Tony is back from Vegas and will be able to answer the question. If I had to guess, he would probably tell you that he is an options facilitator, meaning he will most likely not say "Yes" or "NO" regarding carrying a knife. That is a personal choice of yours from a legal, integrity, moral and mindset perspective. Some items to consider when carrying a knife: - Naked Warrior Concept - If you have a knife at the fight...so do they. - Never bring a gun to a knife fight - Understand the laws and your rights on the region where you plan on carrying - Response should equal threat. Joe M.
4/6/04 11:34 AM
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TaiZen
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Edited: 06-Apr-04
Member Since: 03/18/2002
Posts: 50
thinkFirst, I was from NY and started my Martial Art's career with Master Tague back in the early 70's. He was just "Howie" back then. Obviously he had a profound influence on me. Quite an incredible individual!
4/7/04 12:55 PM
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bryggjemann
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Edited: 08-Apr-04 08:47 PM
Member Since: 04/19/2003
Posts: 13
"JMullings quote- Never bring a gun to a knife fight" I thought it was the other way around. In a phone booth it is probably easier to control the gun than a knife.. but with room to move..... *edit- What justifies lethal force and* What constitutes lethal force (here specifically for a civilian application) is what must be understood if carrying a knife for personal protection. If carrying a knife for that reason, as with any weapon, you must train with it. You are probably way ahead of me on that one. SGodsey
4/7/04 3:14 PM
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JMullings
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Edited: 07-Apr-04
Member Since: 01/31/2002
Posts: 251
Brygg, Yep, its "Never bring a gun to a knife fight".... Think about it for a bit, then play with it in a training evolution, proximity changes everything :) Let me know your thoughts afterwards. Joe
4/25/04 8:29 PM
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TaiZen
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Edited: 25-Apr-04
Member Since: 03/18/2002
Posts: 51
JMullins, What is the Naked Warrior Concept? Still would love to hear what Tony has to say.
4/25/04 10:12 PM
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Tony Blauer
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Edited: 25-Apr-04
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 772
Blauer Tactical Systems, Inc.
Guys, Im extremely busy...on the road at a SWAT conference, 2 classes then off to another trade show + meetings... You know I love to think about my answers so Ill reply when I have more time. Tony
4/27/04 6:01 AM
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pfsjkd
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Edited: 27-Apr-04
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 2710
For those that think you can't get a folder out fast enough to be any use, look at Emerson's knives with the Wave feature. With practice it is bar none the fastest deploying knife out there. Even faster and safer than a switchblade IMO.
4/28/04 4:18 PM
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Sean Mulligan
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Edited: 28-Apr-04
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 89
True...I too possess an Emerson Commando and enjoy the practicality of it, however...you still need to get to it in a fight, and under extreme stress, that is no easy task. If you don't believe me, purchase one of the new folder/automatic training knives and have someone attack during a scenario. Stop immediately and analyze what you did. Having done evolutions like this, I can tell you personally that your hands either come up to protect your command center or intercept the opponents attack, depending on proximity. Then you get banged around a little until you start to get the upper hand. Only then do you think about accessing your blade, not a moment earlier. Ask yourself this...Why do many officers lose their fights when they possess so many tools that could defeat their opponent easily. This is why you must develop transition drills to access weapons of opportunity safely once you've weathered the storm. Don't beleive me, give it a try...just keep it "real'. Sean Mulligan
4/29/04 8:14 AM
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Tony Blauer
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Edited: 29-Apr-04
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 773
Blauer Tactical Systems, Inc.
Hi, sorry for the delay: You asked:"....does Tony advocate carrying a knife for personal protection?" The core reply is: "Only if you can protect yourself 'without' a knife too." Then, the scenario dictates. i.e. is it an extension of your personal arsenal carried in times of [additional] danger, or is it a prop cause its fashionable to your self-image?? I have many knives (I collect). When I travel I usually carry, when Im home I dont. *Cause im under the stupid illusion there is no violence in my city of 2.5 million :-) My kid always asks me to get him one, I tell him "When you start training seriously again, we'll talk about it." In other words, if the body/mind isnt already prepared to defend or engage the threat then knife can only lead to trouble. [Becuase it may be used prematurely out of fear or taken away more easily] Tony
5/1/04 5:37 PM
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TaiZen
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Edited: 01-May-04
Member Since: 03/18/2002
Posts: 52
Thanks Tony and everyone else.
5/16/04 7:51 PM
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sirrotty
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Edited: 16-May-04
Member Since: 01/05/2004
Posts: 3
Hi All trying to get caught up so sorry for very late addition. not much time so I only skimmed the threads. Saw some great contributions, and would have seen more, i am sure, if I had the time to read slowly instead of skim. I am a copper, currently working in a foreign country with only a pcoket knife and baton. Always carry a pocket knife - always have. Always knew why I carry one - but Coach Blauers words will help me explain to students and friends if / if not they should carry one as well as when / when not they should carry one. Coach Mulligans post gave me idea of how i will teach and drill using a knife during offensive defense to a deadly threat. My roomate asked me right before I went on a vacation if i had any material on using a knife in this way. I told him at the time i had knife defense material but would have to think about knife use offensively defensive material. I will go back with drills scalor. also someone asked about defination of deadly force. This will vary state by state but the spirit stays the same. Wisconsin textbook defines deadly force as "the intentional use of a firearm or other instrument which would result in a high probability of death". Wisconsin defines behavior which justifies the use of deadly force as: "any behavior which has caused or imminately threatens to cause death or great bodily harm". Don't have pages to decypher this. Use caution with this one. In some states only behavior which will kill you justifies that level of force against the attacker - Wisconsin was really thinking out of the box when they did this. Jason
6/23/04 12:05 AM
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raptor_prime
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Edited: 23-Jun-04
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 12
Although I've been exposed to a lot of good knife training, these are some thoughts I've had regarding carrying a knife: 1. When would you need to use potentially lethal force? I'm not in law enforcement. I'm not a bodyguard. I stay out of bad neighborhoods. I've made it 33 years without a threat to my life. It's not that it could never happen, but are the odds great enough to justify carrying a lethal weapon when less-than-lethal will do and potentially be better for me if it ever goes to court? Pepper-spray, an ASP baton, and even the Gunting Trainer from Spyderco (my personal favorite) can get you out of a jam if necessary without the need for lethal force. 2. If confronted with the need for lethal force, will you be able to deploy your blade (or any weapon for that matter)? When you're cornered by a bunch of gang-bangers and your hands begin shaking from the adrenaline dump and you get that tunnel vision and your ears start ringing, are you going to be able to draw your blade and deploy it correctly in time - even with the cool Emerson wave feature? Maybe...maybe not. What if you're tackled from behind? What if you're sucker punched? As mentioned above, the blade is a good tool but it is not a panacea. You still have to get at it for it to be of any use to you, whereas combative skills are right there when you need them. 3. Beware of cutting yourself. Perhaps I'm just a clutz, but I've cut myself while practicing deploying my blade in non-stressful situations. I try to flick it open, it doesn't open all the way, instinctively my thumb goes to open it again, I knick my thumb. Sure it's not bad, but it's a distraction. What if it happens and you do cut yourself pretty good in the middle of an altercation? Maybe you won't feel it with the adrenaline rushing through your system, but the sight of your own blood might distract you just as that sucker punch or another weapon comes at you. You also have to worry about cutting yourself while fighting with the blade. One reason the police suspected OJ killed his wife is because the bad guy used a knife and OJ had a cut on his finger. Guys who use knives can cut themselves during the flurry of combat. Mick Strider, creator of Strider knives and a former military man said it is very possible to cut yourself with your own blade. I think the fewer distractions and the less harm I do to myself in a fight the better. 4. If it's easy to use, it can be used against you. Somehow you lose your knife during the fight and the bad guy gets it. Now you get to fight against your own knife. Not good... If I were going to a bad neighborhood or working in a high risk profession, then I would consider carrying a folding combat knife IN ADDITION to non-lethal devices like pepper-spray. For now if I feel I need to carry something, as mentioned before I prefer the Gunting Trainer. It's got a hard metal edge that will do immense damage when used properly against the right targets, and I don't have to worry about cutting myself or killing someone if I do have to use it. But that's just my opinion.
7/31/04 1:53 AM
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Sam Pai Kenpo
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Edited: 31-Jul-04
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 6056
That was a good answer by Tony Blauer and I agree. Gary Hughes

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