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DantheWolfMan UnderGround >> 3P'S Question


4/15/04 2:43 PM
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jlef1
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Edited: 15-Apr-04
Member Since: 04/15/2004
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Coach, First off, thanks for a " ZEN " weekend, I have personally made a choice after the PDR session to cease and desist all other forms of martial arts training. I can not in good conscience promote any style or "art" as an effective means of surviving a street confrontation. I do have one question in reference to the information this weekend. In reviewing the 3 p's it seems that if you identify your , personal, present and passionate reason for fighting back during the pre-fight negotiation process that would be more desirable than trying to identify them after the attack has happened. It seems that if you do so then your psychological fear would be greatly impacted "BEFORE" the attack which would allow you to gain tactical ground much more quickly if the attack is imminent. Obviously identifying the 3p's at all is a benefit but my question is do you recommend that we instruct people to make the psychological shift as soon as they sense the dissonance of a looming confrontation to get prepared if need be. Thanks Coach Jeff Le Fevre
4/15/04 3:04 PM
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Tony Blauer
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Edited: 15-Apr-04
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 768
Blauer Tactical Systems, Inc.
Thanks for the kind words Jeff. The PDR session was excellent and I apprecited your input & insights during the training. Ill be in NC this summer for a couple of military & LEO courses, hopefully we can hook up while im in your area. As for your question...its a good one. And its a valid point. Before I answer it fully I'd lke to genrate some dialog on the subject. Let me start if off by stating this: There are officiers who will keep photos of their loved ones on their visors so every call they go out on the last thing they see is a their family...the psychologcial reminder being they are the most important thngs in the world. I have mixed emotions about this activity. Ponder that and let me know what, why & when you come up with and then we'll dissect your quesiotn regarding the 3 P's. Tony
4/15/04 11:18 PM
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TSA
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Edited: 15-Apr-04
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 7
Jeff, The 3p's and the Be your own bodyguard principle are integral parts of Personal Defense Readiness. You are right, it is desirable to pre-load our students with this information and encourage them to work through the 3P's exercises. I also like to discuss mindset during drill debriefs to encourage students to be "in role" both physically and mentally (i.e. What where you thinking and feeling during the drill) That being said I would not go so far as to create an expectation that they should or can access their indignation through BYOB and 3P's at the first sign of confrontation. It may be desirable but may not be consistently possible. Scenario dictates. In the ambush moment we may have to shift from victim to victor mindset during the confrontation, possibly more than once. We practice converting our primal and protective flinches into tactical responses much in the same way. Can you really convert from primal to tactical without a psychological shift? My 2 cents. You did a great job at the session. Welcome to the Matrix. Tom Arcuri
4/17/04 10:40 PM
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taroson
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Edited: 18-Apr-04 11:40 AM
Member Since: 01/01/2001
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Jeff, This is a very good question. Tom as usual brings up some great points, especially the idea that during a confrontation you may need to shift from the victim to victor mindset more than once. The reason the 3 P's are so important is that they deal with what you feel Personal and Passionate about Now (Present). Therefore the list will change depending on whatever your 3 P's are at the time. In the begining, it is good,to pre-load students with the concept, especially those who are not sure that they will fight back. Once they have learned to manage F.E.A.R. and flip the emotional and psychological switch they are ready to fight, with or without actual training. If the physical training is good and builds confidence, that's great, but without the emotional and psychological arsenal engaged, the physical will never happen. Get the horse before the cart. The reason a picture of your family may not be a good idea is that that image may not be what you are most Passionate about in the Present. The most important thing in the world can shift depending on many things. If the Bad Guy is choking me, the most important thing in the world is breathing. If you have done a Wish List and discovered that your life is worth fighting for then what may get you going is the fact that the Bad Guy attacked you in the first place. This is the element of Indignation that Tony tells us about in his videos and tapes. Using Tony's Cycle of Behavior Model will help clarify what needs to be done to break out of the F.E.A.R. loop and will help shed light on the importance of the Wish List and F.E.A.R. Management skills. Like Tom mentioned, The Scenario Dictates. However, I think that as soon as you feel that dissonance, you need to get motivated and start thinking tactically as soon as possible. When Fit hits the Shan, the 3 P's may be what gets you up off the ground and back into the fight. Used proactively, it may help you avoid the fight altogether or talk your way out of it. Anyway Jeff, my one word answer to your question is , "Yes". Take Care, Mike Suyematsu
4/18/04 10:11 AM
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jlef1
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Edited: 18-Apr-04
Member Since: 04/15/2004
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Thanks so much !!! This is all very good information. I wish there was a way someone could quantify this because this whole issue centers around having something you are willing to lay your life on the line to protect. Coach often uses the analogy of a woman who is afraid and submissive when she alone is attacked but indignant and willing to fight if her child is attacked. There is fear present when she is alone but when it is her child there is indignation present. I wonder if there was a way to analyze the victims of violent attacks "ones who did not fight back" to see if they were passionate at all about life. It would appear that passionate goal oriented people of vision who are exited about livng life to the fullest would be more prone to fighting back as as they have a laundry list of things they are looking forward to in life. The victim mindset goes far beyond simply self defense, it is an attitude that permeates every erea of someones life and it seems that part of this whole process is helping people make a paradigm shift from Victim to Victor mindset as a worldview. Anyones 2 cents welcome. Jeff Le Fevre
4/18/04 2:09 PM
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AlbertaPDR
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Edited: 18-Apr-04
Member Since: 06/02/2002
Posts: 52
Jeff, There are some very good thoughts on this presented by PDR Coaches Tom Arcuri and Mike Suyematsu. Remember we are "Options Facilitators" The three P's are a huge component to PDR Performance Enhancement research as well as a tool for empowering and motivating. In a real confrontation there are no linear stages to how things will go down or our responses to pre-contact. The scenario will affect everything. Remember we tain in a system that is three dimensional. How we feel affects how we think, and how we feel and think affects what we do. Creating the PDR Wish List incorporating the 3 P's gives reasons for us to either resolve a conflict through verbal de-fuse and negotiation or through physical means. (Personal Directive building) As food for thought what scenarios do you see your self incorporating the 3 P's to resolve a conficlt verbally as well as physically?? Keep in mind everything PDR is about formula. Everything is a building block to something else. I will leave with a PDR/BTS Maxim: "If you do not commit to the important, you will committ to the unimportant." Robb Finlayson, PDR Coach www.tonyblauer.com
4/18/04 5:29 PM
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jlef1
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Edited: 18-Apr-04
Member Since: 04/15/2004
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Thanks everyone for your insight. It's nice to see a group of people who actually mull over the information and present relevant and intelligent thought and discussion on these issues. All to often for those of us who have had years of martial arts training were accustomed to the " its that way because I said so " attitude of so many instructors. Based on the responses I gathered it may not be feasable to instruct someone to access their indignation during the NVP negotiation phase through the 3 p's every time and in every scenario. Obviously my emotions will be impacted differently if I am facing 3 large opponents with weapons with my wife present as opposed to an unarmed opponent by myself with my friends present. It may take me longer to get to that point in the confrontation based on the scenerio. Again based on the information it seems that identifying your 3P'S weather for fighting back or as coach Finlayson pointed out verbally defusing the situation in advance "WHENEVER POSSIBLE" would place you in a tactical advantage as it is impossible to act differently than the way you think. It seems to me that the degree to which you will be startled will determine how quickly and resolutely you can respond. I guess the bottom line is having the 3p's in the first place and not trying to place them into some sort of mental " kata " that says " it has to be this way or that way is favorable as you will identify them and make the tactical shift when you do based on the scenario. This is a great discussion and I am gleaning alot of great info from all of you. Keep the info coming !!! Thanks Everyone Jeff Le Fevre
4/18/04 10:15 PM
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Tony Blauer
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Edited: 18-Apr-04
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 769
Blauer Tactical Systems, Inc.
Jeff, Glad you like the seriousness of the forum. Have you logged on to the private PDR forum yet? That'll take the interaction to another level :-) As I mentioned earlier, your question is a good one and it makes me glad to see you introspecting on the material rather than simply memorizing info from the session. You know the expression: "Its better to have one & not need it than to need one and not have it"? Same for the THREE P's :-) Also, while everyone shared aspects of a totality, here's soem insight into the strategic origin of the THREE P's: 1, Our system is most importantly built around the 'ambush' principle which means the THREE P's are a crucial 'backup' compeont for the emotional arsenal... 2. IN the beginning of a confrontation many oscillate between a 'WTF and holy-shit mode' and then tend to over-think the problem. 3. Others allow pride & ego to dictate their initial strategies (first two D's: Detect/Defuse) Summary: If youre training, aware, diligent, mindful, lawful, ethical the only time the Three P's are really needed is during a very serious threat and only when that threat escaltes to a level where youre at serious risk (thats when fear and other eleemnts can undermine training and thats where you need the real emotional backup.) TOny
4/19/04 8:05 AM
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JDDynamic
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Edited: 19-Apr-04
Member Since: 03/26/2003
Posts: 29
One of the mental shifts I have developed since becoming involved in the PDR process is that the ENTIRE content of the program is appropriate for everyone, no matter our level, instructor or student, civilian or law enforcement. It is only our experience and imagination that takes us to different levels of that process and materials. I have found out things about myself, my skills (lack of in some areas and strengths in others), and more. And all of it has come from the fact that the system principles and scenario-based training allows us to replicate and analyze and allow for those 'Holy Shit' moments. Preparation in totality is the key. A few months back I found myself faced with an event that was a mix of all the wrong things to do. Wrong time, wrong place, etc. When it came down to it, I could visualize what the full-range of possibilities were for their attack, and when it finally came, I was indignant, but not for the reasons you would think. During a debrief, I was actually momentarily upset that the bad guys couldn't have come up with something more creative. Then I silently and purposefully thanked the combatives gods that I had been through some of Coach's courses and these scum had not. Jason D
4/19/04 8:37 AM
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Tony Blauer
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Edited: 19-Apr-04
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Posts: 770
Blauer Tactical Systems, Inc.
:-) Nice, thank you Jason. TOny
4/19/04 9:45 AM
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jlef1
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Edited: 19-Apr-04
Member Since: 04/15/2004
Posts: 3
Thanks everyone for the input !!! Thanks Coach for the " light bulb moment " The fact that the system is based on the ambush puts it all into perspective !!! Jeff

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