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TMA UnderGround >> In ten years, where will TMA be?


7/5/04 12:06 AM
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glock4life
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Edited: 05-Jul-04
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Do you feel that it will be as widespread as it is now? Or will MMA be the primary "system" taught? Will MMA in general supplant or destroy TMA as we know it?

I feel that, best case scenario, the UFC reality show could really force MMA into the mainstream. But is this going to kill TMA as we know it?

Take for example childrens' training like little dragons or whatever. How would/could that program change or evolve in a mixed martial art influenced world?

The teens growing up today are or will be exposed to MMA more & more, so when they send their kids to training, what will they be looking for?

7/5/04 12:29 AM
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gakami
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Edited: 05-Jul-04
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how far in the future are you talking about? For the next 20years I'd say judo and tae kwon do will still be up there in popularity, parents sending their kids there due to olympic exposure. don't forget generic karate/kung fu schools. most parents might be afraid that mma would be too "violent" though..
7/5/04 2:57 AM
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gakami
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Edited: 05-Jul-04
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do you think MMA will end up with a few McDojo fighters like TMA?
7/6/04 10:15 AM
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GaydarBlane
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Edited: 06-Jul-04
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Most people have no idea what the hell MMA is and after they did know, they'd still think that the local kung fu master would kick the crap out of those brutish fighters. TMA is here to stay. MMA will continue to be a small sub culture of the small culture which is the martial arts community.
7/6/04 3:26 PM
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Willybone
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Edited: 06-Jul-04 03:14 PM
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I think a common misconception of a lot of MMA fans, is that everyone is really looking for MMA but people with misconceptions take TMA instead.
I think no matter how aware of MMA the general public is, most are still not cool with rolling around on the floor, limbs entangled, with some sweaty dude, with getting punched in the face, or with getting slammed onto the ground. Without these things, there is no "MMA" training.
TMA will be here in 5, 10, or 20 years. They serve purposes that your average MMA-type class doesn't and won't. Sure, more people may move into MMA classes, but there will always be people for whom that is not the right answer.

That's my 2bit opinion, anyway.
7/6/04 3:56 PM
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Punisher73
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Edited: 06-Jul-04
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People take TMA's for different reasons besides just learning how to fight. TMA's will exist for those reasons alone. My prediction is that MMA will start to be more Mcdojo like because as others have pointed out it still isn't mainstream. Soon you will have BJJ schools that only do drills and no free rolling just to attract more people to it.
7/7/04 5:09 AM
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Naughty Gorilla
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Edited: 07-Jul-04
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Boxing is a mainstream sport, it never stopped TMA
7/13/04 5:38 PM
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NowhereMan22000
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Edited: 13-Jul-04
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TMA will always be more popular than MMA, for the same reason that there are more TMA'er than boxers. Most people don't like getting hit and most people will feel better doing TMA because of it. There is a minority of people who enjoy the really tough training involved in really doing MMA. Amazingly perhaps, many, many people who do TMA actually hate the real combative element of it! The naieve think you can be a superman by learning karate or kung fu or whatever. Why bother learning that MMA stuff? You don't see any MMA films around - it ain't cool. Also, MMA is really performance-based. It's difficult to swagger around as an MMA bad-ass unless you can actually do the biz. In many TMAs, you can get a black belt if you can do your basics and kata well and aren't completely hopeless at sparring. I must admit that as I'm being tapped out again and again I can see the appeal of the TMA culture! How great is the feeling put on the black belt and, ipso facto, be good!
7/13/04 6:54 PM
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glock4life
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Edited: 13-Jul-04
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Nowhere, excellent post and that really brings it home.

But let me add that I had to fight to get my Black belt, it was no walk in the park...but yes there are MANY schools that just give 'em away.

7/13/04 9:48 PM
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yusul
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nowhere and assualt and battery are correct. also, many parents will continue to use tma as a daycare facility which they are perfectly equiped for. the only way for mma to increase in popularity is to because more mcdojo like.
7/14/04 12:48 AM
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Frogs
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Edited: 14-Jul-04
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Any type of significant increase in the number of MMA schools would be the worst thing for it, as the quality would drop to accomadate the masses. Overexposure can kill anything.Fortunately, it's EXTREMELY unlikely MMA will in any way surpass,or even approach the Mcdojos in mass appeal for the reasons already stated. Remember, the average person has no idea what the difference is between TKD,wing chun, or Hapkido.There are some funny misconceptions out there regarding MAs in general. Just recently a coworker of mine stated blackbelts have to have their hands registered as lethal weapons with the PD.And this wasnt the first time I heard that.One guy I heard that same statement from was a corrections officer.Do not contest these people, it is futile. I always try to keep it low key that I practice any MAs.The only time I bring it up is if someone says they practice themselves, which 9 out of 10 times will be either TKD or franchise karate.Even most of these practitioners will know little ,if anything, about MMA .To keep it simple I always say I practice jiujitsu.Very few know the difference between JJJ and BJJ. You gotta love some of the questions people will ask when they hear you take MAs. Usually its "what belt are you?" and the best one is along the lines of "if some big dude started with you on the street, you could really mess him up ,right?"
7/14/04 3:13 PM
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NowhereMan22000
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Edited: 14-Jul-04
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"But let me add that I had to fight to get my Black belt, it was no walk in the park...but yes there are MANY schools that just give 'em away." I didn't have to spar for my BB, but I did for 2nd dan. But it was only point sparring anyway (better than nothing, to be sure, and far more useful than prearranged one-steps and kata).
7/14/04 9:38 PM
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1groovyunit
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Edited: 14-Jul-04 09:27 PM
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Once again we have the people who minimize the traditional arts. Here are some things to think about. This is a copy and paste from another post I made on another thread. "I am assuming that by effective, you mean combat effectiveness, so here goes: Systems to take a closer look at before dismissing TMA: 1) Kyokushin and its offshoots, especially seidokaikan 2) I've never trained in Isshin-Ryu karate, but hear all kinds of good stuff about it, and from what I have seen of it it looks practical 3) Judo 4) Any system of martial art taught by someone who is one of those salty old school black belts, they'll teach you some good stuff because typically, they've used it. There is a tang soo do guy around here who is about 60 and notorious for his dealings with people on the street (here is Trenton, NJ, by the way). I wonder how Curtis Sliwa felt about some of his people training under him? Consider this, people defended themselves effectively with 'TMA'S' long before the UFC and BJJ. Just because a system does forms doesn't mean it's useless or even that the forms are useless. If you really want to get technical I would assert that TMA's didn't lose their 'combat effectiveness' until the austerity was taken out of the training. Now you have all these 'dojos' (laughable) in air conditioned strip malls where soccer mom drops little Billy and Courtney off to the 'Sensei' (read 'babysitter') and people come in, sign contracts, throw a few kicks (do they ever sweat?) and get their black belt. This is a far cry from what training was years ago. Typically you wouldn't even think of jumping a black belt back then unless you had a gun or a bat and some buddies with you. Having a black belt meant more than technical knowledge, it meant that you were polished in mind and spirit as well, and being in a 'real fight' meant that you were going to try to take the person's life or die trying. No one wanted to tangle with that, because even someone with average strength and a little technical knowledge had a real edge if they believed they were going to win by any means necessary. People defended themselves very effectively using 'T-M-A's' long before MMA or BJJ came on the scene. Some of their attackers died. There is a martial concept called 'shugyo' which means 'harshness in training'. People who trained in MA and taught MA lived by that. That meant that you approached training with utmost seriousness. You didn't come in and fuck around and stare at the ceiling. You were there to grow and by harsh means. Focus was important, austerity was important, spiritual growth was important, testicular fortitude was important. Where have all these things gone? Probably worn down by our pussified litigious society, coupled with greed and people's inability to forsake instant gratification for long-term gain (see the latest statistics on credit card debt? What does that tell you about society?) If you ask me, bring back the 'good old days'. Train people with a bamboo stick and knuckle push-ups. Let people get their asses beat and teeth knocked out during belt tests. Rip the air conditioner out of the ceiling, throw away the contracts and make it about what it was supposed to be about in the first place. Then we'll see how many people feel like that kind of training is a waste of time. Don't blame the system, blame the method."
7/15/04 5:02 AM
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gakami
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Edited: 15-Jul-04
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I don't doubt that TMA has a lot of value in its teachings, I have a strong background in TMA myself. I spent the first 13 years of my life in asia, training in Tang Soo Do. Fair enough I was only a kid but training was TOUGH. Back during the 80s, Tang Soo Do was still sending Korean- trained instructors and I had a succession of them (because of my father's job, we moved around a lot). All of them were tough as nails. The instructor go around to each of us while we were doing jumping kicks, and he'd swing a big stick and if we didn't jump high enough relative to our heights, we'd get whacked hard by the stick swinging below us. Another time I remember was when the instructor realised that when I do the splits, my legs weren't exactly flat on the ground. So he called me aside during class and got me to do the splits, then he pushed me down flat until my legs were flat, and held me there. I remember the KILLED but from that point I was always able to do the splits and my high kicks weren't a problem (not that they were a problem before). When my family moved to Australia, I stopped training for a few years. But when I was ready to get back into it, I looked around at various martial arts schools, and I was so disappointed at what I saw. There was no discipline in the classes, no sense of intense spirit and concentration (I'm generalising of course, but this applies to a large majority of those I saw). Even when I started university studies and checked out the martial arts classes there, I was so disappointed at the standard. In my experience, TMA for the most part has watered down so much.
7/15/04 6:18 PM
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Outkaster
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Edited: 15-Jul-04
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Well a better question is where will the Martial Arts in general be in 10 years. I only say that because I think respect for TMA's are just not given respect in a lot of circles and especially on this board. That is sad. Yeah a lot of TMA's do not have practical applications according to the MAA crowd but there has to be something said for dedicating yourself to an art for 20 plus years. I study Judo/Kickboxing now and some San Shou. It is fun but it still is not the same atmosphere as when I studied ITF TKD. For kids I think it is good because TMA settings teach some disicipline and structure for them. Usually older people are involved with MMA from what I have seen. MMA practitioners are a niche part of the MA market. Nothing wrong with it but that is how it is. Could it be widespread with multiple training halls?, Maybe but I kind of doubt it because of the training being hardcorp. People in general do not like to train hard. Many of them will go to TMA Dojo's because they do not like to "get hit" as mentioned above. The biggest problem I see is that the overall respect for TMA has gone down and it does not seem to be a "big deal" to study a Martial Art. If you studied in the 1970's or early 1980's I think being a Martial Artist carried a certain amount of respect. Now they do not carry that much weight. You tell someone you are a second degree black belt they'll be like "so what"?!
8/28/04 11:36 PM
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HELWIG
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Edited: 28-Aug-04
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I saw nothing but decline in the 10+ years I trained. To attract more people, standards are lowered. Accomodation becomes more important than making people rise to the occasion. Martial arts went from a serious commitment to a recreational activity that every man, woman and child can non-chalantly participate in.
8/29/04 10:28 AM
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Luis Gutierrez
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Edited: 29-Aug-04
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The future of MMA: http://www.onedragon.com/videos/PAWDSL.wmv -Luis www.straightblastgym.com www.onedragon.com
5/6/05 2:31 PM
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shadowboxchamp
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Edited: 06-May-05 02:32 PM
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MMa will begin to sift through the huge archives of TMA for artistic, crowdpleasing techniques. We have learned that being effective in mma does not necessarilary mean an exiting fight for the fans. It starts with the fans. The more crowd pleasing the techniques, the more encouraged they will become. 10 years from now TMA will be more accepted than it is now.
5/11/05 12:38 PM
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8LimbsScientist
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Edited: 11-May-05
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Things will be the same as they are now, only perhaps there will be more respect for TMA and an understanding of the difference between McDojo TMA and real TMA. With guys like GSP, Bonnar, White, and others throwing spinning back kicks, spinning hook kicks, and axe kicks in an NHB environment, I think people are going to realize that whats most important are the training METHODS not the techniques themselves. I'd like to believe that more TMA schools would incorporate more athletic-oriented training but that might not happen.
5/11/05 10:20 PM
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Willybone
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Edited: 11-May-05
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I'd like to think that the advances in protective gear technology will encourage schools and a wider range of students to fight more often. The most common complaint I hear from students in all kinds of schools is, "We don't spar enough." I think it's because so many casual students don't like the idea of getting some bruises or a bloody nose.

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