UnderGround Forums
 

TMA UnderGround >> What TMA would you choose?


10/6/04 4:39 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
321FullContact
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 06-Oct-04
Member Since: 10/08/2002
Posts: 213
 
Where I live styles are limited. I want to start training in a TMA and my choices are Tae Kwon Do, Wado-Ryu Karate, Moosul Kwan, Isshin-Ryu Karate, Kuk Sool Wan, and Nippon Kokusai Karate. Which would you choose based on effectiveness? I need input here because I know very little about any of them except Tae Kwon Do. I was planning on watching a class at each school to see how they looked but any input could help me a great deal. Thank you
10/7/04 9:49 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Willybone
384 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 07-Oct-04
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 15186
Nothing will beat seeing classes and talking to students.
I've worked with some KSW students at my HKD school, and was impressed by the breadth of knowledge and physical skills. They may have been exceptional students, but someone was obviously showing them good stuff.
TKD's good because you'll always be able to find a school and plenty of competition opportunities. Being part of such a large community has its advantages. But, at the same time, we all how some TKD schools lower standards to encourage participation.
10/7/04 10:03 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
321FullContact
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 07-Oct-04
Member Since: 10/08/2002
Posts: 215
Thanks for the input. I've kind of narrowed it down to kuk sool wan or isshin ryu karate. I'm going to sit in on a few classes and see how they look. I'd like to do some weapon work too and both of them offer that.
10/8/04 3:58 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Robkali
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 08-Oct-04
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 244
If you've narrowed down to include Kuk Sool Won...drop the Isshin Ryu & check out Wado Ryu...Here is a brief description (also see www.wadoryu.org) "1897, Ohtsuka Sensei started school where he studied Shindo Yoshin Ryu Jujitsu, under the supervision of his father. Later, when he was 13, he studied the style under Shinzaburo Nakayama Sensei, the third Grand Master of this style of Jujitsu. Unlike the other schools of jujitsu at the time, Yoshin Ryu specialised in kicking and punching techniques in addition to throwing, twisting and locking techniques. Ohtsuka Sensei continued to study the style whilst at Waseda University from 1910 to 1917. He also studied different styles of Jujitsu, concentrating on their positive aspects. In doing so, Ohtsuka Sensei learned a great deal about the body's vital points for both attacking and healing purposes." "In 1922, Ohtsuka Sensei attended the sports festival in Tokoyo, where he encountered Karate taught by Gichin Funakoshi, a Karate instructor from Okinawa, and a man widely held as the "Father of Modern Karate". Ohtsuka Sensei was so impressed with this that he visited Funakoshi Sensei on numerous occasions during his stay. Funakoshi Sensei was, in turn, impressed by Ohtsuka's enthusiasm and determination to understand Karate and agreed to teach him all he knew about it." "Ohtsuka Sensei thought that the full spirit of Budo, which concentrates on defence and attack, was missing, and that kata techniques did not work in realistic fighting situations. He experimented with other, more combatative styles such as Judo, Kendo and Aikido. He blended the practical and useful elements of Okinawan karate with traditional Japanese martial-arts techniques from jujitsu and kendo, which lead to the birth of Kumite, or fighting, in Karate. Ohtsuka Sensei thought that there was a need for this more dynamic and fluid type of Karate to be taught, so he decided to leave Funakoshi Sensei to concentrate on developing his own style of Karate - Wado."
10/9/04 10:51 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
321FullContact
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 09-Oct-04
Member Since: 10/08/2002
Posts: 224
what are the differences between wado and isshin? is wado more functional? I have read on other threads here that isshin ryu is real world fight functional, so if you could tell me why you would choose wado over isshin I would appreciate it. The Wado instructor here is 5th Dan and the isshin instructor is 2nd Dan. Would that make a big difference or not? I've kind of decided against the Kuk sool wan, I watched a class of that here and it didn't look like my cup of tea.
10/10/04 12:36 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Southie
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 10-Oct-04
Member Since: 07/02/2003
Posts: 326
I would recommend WTF TKD over Karate. I know I'm going to be flamed for saying this, but if you can find a good Korean teacher, its worth it. The conditioning drills, plyometrics, and footwok are great. Most good TKD teachers will teach combinations with the hands. If you can train a little on your own and incorporate boxing combinations along with knees, elbows and clinch work, that would be great. A lot of the Korean masters will focus on conditioning and be very military like. Most Karate schools that Ive come across dont. Its funny that a lot of people who are into ITF TKD, TSD and Karate say that TKD is just a sport and not a martial art, thats not true, not at my school anyway. When visiting ITF schools, TSD and Karate schools, everything is the same, except there are no plyometrics and conditioning drills at these schools. We do one and three step sparring, obviously free sparring, and also self defense tequniques which come from Hapkido. If you are looking to be quick and in shape, WTF TKD will provide that for you, if you can find a good school. I know that there are a lot of shitty schools out there, and it might be hard to find good one, but they are out there. I am not bashing ITF TKD , TSD, or Karate at all. All martial arts have positives and negatives to them. Try them all and decide what fits you best.
10/11/04 2:06 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Robkali
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 11-Oct-04 05:23 PM
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 248
I suggested the Wado Ryu style because you were also considering Kuk Sool Won... Hence I thought you may be interested in the grappling/throwing aspects as well. I have not trained in Wado Ryu, but I have some (admittedly very minor) training in Isshin Ryu, I found it to be mostly not practical or fuctional & they way they sparred/fought was exactly the opposite of the way they trained (when they sparred it was more like TKD - lots of high type point style kicking & their balance when attacking (stances/movements) were for shit). Anyway, you'll be able to figure out for yourself by experiencing the classes, and thats all that matters in the end, how you fint with the style/system & how it fits for you. Good luck Rob
10/13/04 1:29 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
hitmeharder
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 13-Oct-04
Member Since: 01/04/2003
Posts: 212
Forget the karate and TKD go right to Muay Thai. If you are serious about your standup training you will end up there..It took me ten years to realize this.....
10/14/04 1:24 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Southie
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 14-Oct-04
Member Since: 07/02/2003
Posts: 330
I agree with hitmeharder.
10/15/04 2:44 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Robkali
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 15-Oct-04
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 255
I agree with going with Muay Thai as well... Except, at the beginning of his post he stated: "Where I live styles are limited"... So that kinda LIMITS his choices doncha think?
10/15/04 9:55 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
jsteinmann
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 15-Oct-04
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 141
"Where I live styles are limited." I love Muay Thai, but this suggests that it's not an option. "I want to start training in a TMA " This suggests he wants a TMA. Which is all to say that saying "TMA sucks, do Muay Thai" is not a terribly useful bit of advice for this situation.
10/17/04 8:55 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
321FullContact
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 17-Oct-04
Member Since: 10/08/2002
Posts: 253
I'm sorry I should have given more details. I am already training in Muay Thai but it is about a two hour drive to train there so I'm only getting there once a week. I am a blue belt in BJJ so I've got the ground covered. That was the first martial art I ever did. I just want to learn a TMA for the sake of learning a TMA. Not for self defense or anything like that. Just want to do it because I want to. Now in the same situation which would you choose?
10/18/04 12:16 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
jsteinmann
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 18-Oct-04
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 143
"I just want to learn a TMA for the sake of learning a TMA. Not for self defense or anything like that. Just want to do it because I want to." Well, then let me make a suggestion. If you're doing it because you want to, and for no other reason, than stop worrying about how "effective" it is, and just find something you enjoy. Check out the schools, and go to the one who's teacher, students, and system resonates with you. You can have a lot of fun training when you're not stressing about whether or not this is the ultimate method of training. Go enjoy. Tell us how it goes. Don't worry about the rest of it.
10/18/04 2:25 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Willybone
384 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 18-Oct-04
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 15406
This forum was not created so we could have 1000 "TMAs suck, take MT and BJJ" responses. There are about 100 other MMA.tv forums for that. This one is the sole exception.

No one has to pretend TMAs will destroy all comers, or that the UFC is terrified of TKD, or that Dim Mak can be learned by the aged to defend themselves against guys with guns. The enjoyment of studying a TMA is justification enough.

Believe it or not, not everyone is training to be a badass in a pair of speedos or the most dangerous guy with a pint in his hand at the local bar.
10/18/04 4:02 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
beernight
34 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 18-Oct-04
Member Since: 10/24/2003
Posts: 1298
as far as being worried about technique, I would think all and every martial arts would make that a big priority. As far as learning to "fight" or defend your self I think it varies from person to person. Although the stlye should be consistant, the teaching are not (speaking about the same art) I suggest going to all and checking them out and seeing which YOU prefer.
10/18/04 4:13 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
jsteinmann
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 18-Oct-04
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 144
From the front page: " This forum is not the place to “teach someone a lesson” in how useless you think a particular training style is. Pointless degradation of styles or practitioners is not welcome here" As Willybone says, there are hundreds of other forums where you can talk about how TMA sucks. But the prostletyzing here is getting old, and it doesn't serve any purpose.
10/18/04 11:10 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
jsteinmann
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 18-Oct-04
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 145
Well, I was addressing what I percieved as a general lack of reading comprehension going on in the thread. 321FullContact asked for opinions on a specific group of martial arts. It was pretty clear from the get-go that his choices were limited to that set of martial arts. Furthermore, he made it clear that functionality was not his primary concern, and that he was interested in TMA for the sake of TMA. In response, he got people telling him to take arts that weren't among his choices, telling him why TMA is inferior to MMA, and a whole lot of other guff that wasn't actually addressing the question that he asking. I feel like this thread has been hijacked enough already, so I'm bowing out. I hope 321FullContact feels like his question was answered. If not, maybe it will be soon.
10/19/04 9:10 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
321FullContact
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 19-Oct-04
Member Since: 10/08/2002
Posts: 257
Ah, screw it. I'm just gonna buy some Shaolin Kung Fu Instructional tapes. That's kind of what I was wanting anyway, something a little weird just to have fun with. I checked out some of the schools and they just took themselves too seriously. It did not look like fun. I get enough of the hard stuff at BJJ and some kickboxing. I just want something to play with and have fun with....maybe Monkey style Kung Fu tapes...
10/19/04 11:57 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Willybone
384 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 19-Oct-04
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 15423
I did not write that TMA “suck.” If any of you perceive that from what I wrote it is on you.

Really?
TMA is just a way to make money by fooling people into believing that even the weak and frail can become warriors.
If that's not code for "suck", I don't know what is.
Just look at those who have succeeded in MMA. NONE of these guys boast traditional MA.
Well, aside from numerous MMA stars holding blackbelts in kempo, karate, and TKD, you mean.


MMA.tv is a site for fans of mixed martial arts, right? So, do you really think that your revelation of MT and BJJ as fine fighting arts with success in the Octagon is a surprise to anyone here? Do you think anyone could be coming to MMA.tv and still be ignorant of groundfighting, modern training methods, or the endless debate as to how useless TMAs are for the street or the cage?
The answer, my friend, is No.

We've heard it all before. We understand what you're saying. We very well may agree with you 100%. But, please don't tell us we're deluded or wasting our time, OK? I'm asking nicely.

Sorry if I came off harshly before. You should know that your comments would 100% in line with any of the other forums on MMA.tv. You just happened to give an otherwise fairly reasonable answer in the one forum where the answer to "What TMA should I take?" is never "None."
10/19/04 4:06 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Willybone
384 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 19-Oct-04
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 15431
Can I say this again?
Sorry if I came off harshly before. You should know that your comments would 100% in line with any of the other forums on MMA.tv. You just happened to give an otherwise fairly reasonable answer in the one forum where the answer to "What TMA should I take?" is never "None."

I mean that, especially the "if I came off harshly" part.
If I can extend an analogy you made earlier, don't post on a Civil War re-creation forum that Civil War re-creation is a waste of time. It's not really the way to make friends and get intelligent discussion going.
I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm saying that argument is tired, overplayed, and especially unwelcome in this particular sub-forum. Honestly, we really have heard it all before a thousand times from a thousand sources. You are revealing no new information or ideas to anyone here. There is such a thing as a TMA practioner with their eyes open. Hang around here and you may begin to spot them.
10/20/04 8:50 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Willybone
384 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 20-Oct-04
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 15438
Partially I am bitter because TMA was introduced to me as a teenager as an effective means of self-defense. ... I firmly believe that such advertising is wrong.
I understand that reaction, and I also think too many "self-defense" instructors overestimate or overpromise the effectiveness of what they teach. It is way too common.
There's a reason I like this TMA forum and not many others, and that's because we're all MMA fans here. If you're following MMA closely, it's very unlikely you're deluded about what works in a fight. We may still like taking a traditional art, but we're not deluded.
Personally, I do it because it instills a mental discipline I don't find elsewhere.

Thanks for being cool about it.
10/20/04 12:41 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
hitmeharder
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 20-Oct-04
Member Since: 01/04/2003
Posts: 215
I honestly believe that TMA try to mislead people with their advertising. Yes they all say come and learn to defend yourself. The scary part about this is that the instructors of TMA schools truely believe that this is true. IF you walk into a school and try to tell a 30th degree black belt in TKD that the art does not teach realistic self defence you will be considered a fool. Why would a "master" eevn listed to kid off the street. The master has followed the art their entire life so why would that take even a second to comsider the comments. I personnaly maintain a black belt in a traditional standup martial art and have learned the hard way. I felt confident that I could spar with the best students in my TMA class. (Point of clarification, the school I was involved in allowed head punches and all types of kicks.) However, when I sparred a MT students I got my ass handed to me. Most of these students had less than 1 yers worth of training. Here I was at 8 years plus and I was geeting killed by beginners. Realization. As far as my experiences. MMA are a waist of time. I just wish I had my 8 years back!!! Don't make the same mistake...
10/20/04 1:58 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
beernight
34 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 20-Oct-04
Member Since: 10/24/2003
Posts: 1314
just because it didn't work for you, it should provide you with the right to dertur others. if you are looking to just punch and kick then obviously TMA is not for you. It is a 24hr job to be a MARTIAL ARTIST. not 3 hrs a week. REMEMBER MT/KB train to punch and kick with rules and gloves. TMA SHOULD not have the same teachings (ie. GM Joe Lewis was quoted saying his favorite technique was biting.) Everyone has to evolve thier teaching/learning. But to be so close minded is not being a martial artist. IMO of course.
10/20/04 4:50 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
hitmeharder
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 20-Oct-04
Member Since: 01/04/2003
Posts: 216
I am simply expressing my own opinion. TMA has not worked for me. I am not saying that TMA will not work for others. I think many people derive much pleasure from TMA. However in MY OPINION it was a waist of 8 years.
10/20/04 4:57 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Willybone
384 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 20-Oct-04
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 15453
TMA has not worked for me. I am not saying that TMA will not work for others.
I can see that. After 3 years of hapkido, I don't think I was a badass, but there were other guys with similar length of training who were.
I still enjoyed it, though.

Reply Post

You must log in to post a reply. Click here to login.