UnderGround Forums
 

TMA UnderGround >> Black Belt, how long to get it...


11/24/04 11:36 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
TheJET
245 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 24-Nov-04
Member Since: 10/23/2004
Posts: 177
David Vieira BJJ / Tampa CombaT
 

I'm always hearing of how someone got their Black Belt in a year and a half or in two years.  That's just rediculous.  How can any one become an expert in a martial art, self-defense and fighting in that amount of time?  I understand that each person is different, and some will progress faster than others, but under two years is insane. 

Have any of you become a Black Belt in this amount of time?  Or, do you know of someone who has?  What's your perspective on this issue? 

11/25/04 10:30 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
TheJET
245 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 25-Nov-04
Member Since: 10/23/2004
Posts: 182
David Vieira BJJ / Tampa CombaT
I always liked that quote from Mas Oyama.   
11/25/04 3:47 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
beernight
50 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 25-Nov-04
Member Since: 10/24/2003
Posts: 1705
about 7 yrs. for me.
11/29/04 11:55 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
old-guard
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 29-Nov-04
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 1130
eight years for me. i was a very good three sport athlete playing football, basketball and baseball. at our school you had to win a tournament against fighters of the next higher rank to be promoted. at my school our brown belts were better than most black belts and so on. i owned and operated my own schools for over fifteen years and gave out 4 black belts during that span. no paper tigers!
11/29/04 4:57 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Willybone
443 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 29-Nov-04
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 16093
I agree with ViewType. The belt is a symbol. Of what, each teacher/organization decides. I always get a little annoyed when someone tells me their rank and think that tells me about their actual skill level.
11/29/04 9:11 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Ricky T
1 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 29-Nov-04
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 1773
I got mine in less than 2 years in TKD, no BS but I had 8 years of other martial arts experience , I just had to learn their forms and self defense techniques, kicks and fought in a bunch of WTF USTU tournaments.
12/2/04 10:24 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Adam LaClair
1 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 02-Dec-04 10:26 AM
Member Since: 03/23/2002
Posts: 2260
ImposeYourWill.com
I got my Karate black belt in 15 months. However, I was training an average of 5 days a week, 4 hours a day, and all private lessons. Part of my requirements for promotion was to spar against black belts from other local karate and TKD schools, with whom I easily held my own. Of the 3 Karate black belts I have awarded, 2 of them took 3 years, the 3rd took 21 months. That last one was one of the most natural athletes I have ever had the pleasure of working with, and was sparring competitively with other black belts when he was at the green belt level. It's all in how you train, what you train for, and what you focus on. We did NO katas, and focused on full-contact sparring - both of which speed things up a LOT in terms of sparring development, which was the emphasis for our style.
12/2/04 12:54 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
old-guard
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 02-Dec-04
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 1140
15 mos, 21 mos? when you have trained for another several years you will look back and understand how much you did not know and how much you have improved. i have had a hard time with TKD giving out black belts in such a short period of time and giving black belts to kids. just compare your less than 2 yr training against someone that trains as hard for say 8 yrs. there are things that only time and training can produce.
12/2/04 6:30 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Robkali
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 02-Dec-04 06:36 PM
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 315
8 years for a black belt? Do you have learning disability? J/K But seriously, where did all these time frames come from... Look at all the "masters" and how long it took them before: a)they received black belt and b)how soon they were forming their own "systems" (I am referring here to the Okinawan styles.) If your system takes you longer than 3 years to get you to black belt (especially if they have a shitload of underbelts with stripes on them) its a money thing or you only train like 2 times a week. And also probably skip out for weeks at a time. 15 months/5 days a week/4 hours a day(of privates!)= 1500 hours of training. VS. 15months/2 days a week/2 hours a day (not privates)= 240 hours of training...of course this is not black belt level. Remember, black belt level is just the beginning as so many like to say. Ultimately its not the time, but the quality & intensity of the effort put in. see ya Rob
12/3/04 7:48 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
WowUTapFast
15 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 03-Dec-04
Member Since: 04/02/2002
Posts: 1173
Not sure if it is true...but this is what was explained to me. In japan, (from what I have heard) Black Belt is NOT that big of a deal. Just means that you have a solid grip of the basics. A student CAN earn it in 2 years. In fact, supposedly, it is the americans who made the Black Belt to be Master STATUS thing that takes years. Many of the early american Black Belts learned martial arts and earned their Belts while over-seas in the military. When they came back they realized that they could teach and make a killing teaching these oriental secrets. Once they started teaching, they couldnt really have students earn Black Belts in 2 years like they did...cause then they would have nothing left to keep the students around. So supposedly it is the americans that created the 5+ yr Black Belt because they wanted to keep the students around longer and couldnt promote someone above them. Not sure if it is true...but sounds possible.
12/4/04 12:16 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
TheJET
245 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 04-Dec-04
Member Since: 10/23/2004
Posts: 289
David Vieira BJJ / Tampa CombaT
You guys are talking alot of how Instructors are making the Black Belt promotion a longevity because it will bring them more money.  I can see your philosophy but what I've encountered more often than not, is that Instructors are promoting students to Black Belt, especially kids, very quickly.  This is because most people get discouraged if they are taking too long and then they quit.  By promoting students quickly, they are assuring their continued attendance because it's a "big deal" to be Black Belt.     
12/6/04 12:03 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
HELWIG
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 06-Dec-04
Member Since: 05/28/2003
Posts: 11230
I trained in Soo Bahk Do(Tang Soo Do) Moo Duk Kwan from age 6 until age 18. Received Black belt at 12, 2nd Degree at 14 and 3rd degree at 17. Everyone whether man, woman or child was given the same criteria to meet in terms of requirements. But there was no comparison between you and others at your rank. So if you knew the forms, demonstrate the techniques correctly, were able to demonstrate the required break etc. you were awarded said rank. I used to agree with the idea of a black being a symbol of proficiency of the basics. But now I start to think that it should be more. Many styles have black belt and then a separate master ranking after 4th or whatever degree. For a gym geared towards functional skills and housing mostly young men in their prime I think that rank should be more based on skills demonstated in a competition or at least competitive training environment. I dont want to sound elitist or dismisive, I realize everyone has different goals. But there are a million schools for self defense and hobbyists. I love reading shit like ___ gave out 4 black belts in 15 years. A black belt is not for everyone.
12/7/04 3:55 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
beernight
50 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 07-Dec-04
Member Since: 10/24/2003
Posts: 1866
3rd degree at seventeen? wow, thats unheard of? (not putting you or anyone/stlye down, just never heard of such) It depends on so many things from style to style from school to school. The way I was brought up was a black belt is "a master at the basics" BUT you better be able to fight! and if anyone is able to take that belt physically away from you, you are not a black belt. Now my school was pretty hardcore and most schools are not like that now. But I think achieving a black belt IS a big deal! the test its self was brutal! so that task alone to get over is a big deal. just my 2 cents.
12/10/04 11:57 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
HELWIG
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 10-Dec-04
Member Since: 05/28/2003
Posts: 11252
"3rd degree at seventeen? wow, thats unheard of? (not putting you or anyone/stlye down, just never heard of such) It depends on so many things from style to style from school to school. The way I was brought up was a black belt is "a master at the basics" BUT you better be able to fight!" LOL I think looking back that it SHOULD be unheard of, but as long as the time was put in there was no way to really just keep avoiding letting someone test. And I say that based moreso on the maturity level of the student than if they can beat everyone up. The upside was that there was none of this stuff where you just got rank suddenly by your instructor deciding to award it, which helped elimate some of the politics behind promotion in other styles. I could hold my own against other guys there although a big part of it was was size and mindset as much as my actual technique.
12/10/04 12:53 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
GeeRoxx
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 10-Dec-04
Member Since: 10/15/2004
Posts: 155
I got my TKD Junior BB in 2 years and my 1st degree a year after that. As cheesy as it sounds I must say I worked hard for it. I trained about 4 times/week and 1 day outside of class. The 1st degree test consisted of the regular kata crap + 1 step sparring. But after that there was a gruelling fitness test: X pushups, X squat kicks and X crunches in a set amount of time. Thereafter we had a creativity breaking aspect, the whole flying over 6 people and breaking a board bullshit. Then the strength breaking. I had to bust 2 concrete slabs (no spacing) with either a downward punch or knife hand. Needless to say I failed that part of the test and could only break one. Then it was self-defense and sparring. We had a gauntlet style sparring where we had to spar a new opponent every 2 minutes or so x 3. All hits allowed except only slaps to the head, no punches and no ground work. Then it was 2-on-1s or 3-on-1s and the objective is to just do your best. No punching to the head, throws allowed but if the defender ends up on the ground, it is restarted. It was 4 hours long, the guy failed most of us too, but I was lucky to pass that day. I must have had a good kiya.
12/10/04 12:59 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
old-guard
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 10-Dec-04
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 1162
i believe that there are qualities that only come with time and intense training. in my experience the ability to react effortlessly, powerfully and immediately, without thought comes with time. a long time
12/17/04 3:25 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
HELWIG
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 17-Dec-04
Member Since: 05/28/2003
Posts: 11364
Very, very true.
12/21/04 6:59 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Ricky T
1 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 21-Dec-04
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 1852
Joe Lewis considered of the top karate man in America received his black belt in 6 months in Okinawa. He mentioned he received 3 black belts in one year. Also, Mike Stone another top karate man/fighter received his rather quickly, within 1 year.
12/22/04 12:38 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Bunkou
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 22-Dec-04
Member Since: 12/16/2004
Posts: 6
I got my TKD black in 4 years. Judo took about 6. Karate and jiu-jitsu took a year each. Once you know one striking or grappling style, it's pretty easy to advance in another. Now how much of that TKD time was wasted on forms and pre-arranged sparring when other drills would have helped develop skills faster? Same for Judo (though it wasn't the forms they wasted time on, more "conditioning"). You should be able to get a black belt in 2 years if you put the hours in and have a good instructor. One year if you have talent or experience and are willing to make it your life.
12/22/04 1:00 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
HELWIG
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 22-Dec-04
Member Since: 05/28/2003
Posts: 11450
I think the best point on the subject is what your style considers the belt to symbolize. If its a master of the basics then thats one thing. If it's an expert of the highest caliber thats another.
12/26/04 12:03 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
TheJET
245 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 26-Dec-04
Member Since: 10/23/2004
Posts: 637
David Vieira BJJ / Tampa CombaT

I know a kid who is a 4th dan (Recommended Master) at the age of 17.  A "Master" at 17?.... Give me a break! 

This is why I brought up the question in the first place.  If a person deserves it and they excel at the system and are worthy it's one thing.  But, there are way too many Instructors out there promoting BullShit ranks to make themselves look good and to make money.       

1/11/05 8:30 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Bunkou
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 11-Jan-05
Member Since: 12/16/2004
Posts: 20
There are kids - getting Olympic gold medals at 17. - playing with world famous orchestras at 17. - earning PhDs at 17. So why not "master?" I'm not saying this kid truly is a "master," I'm just saying that age isn't part of the equation.
1/16/05 7:34 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
m.g
27 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 16-Jan-05
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 2845
Every since belts were introduce into martial arts people tend to make much more of them then their original intend. I am sure most of us know where the idea of belts came from. It came from Jigoro Kano who based it on the progressive grade levels of education. It was intend to represent progress and experience through the Judo program. Before Judo no martial art hade a grading system. In Okinawa, the home of Karate, skill was based on consensus. Other people who were skilled themselves would judge each other as being skilled or unskilled in Karate. Bjj, for 42 years (from 1925 until 1967) didn't have a progressive belt ranking system. It wasn't until the creation of the Bjj federation and Sport Bjj that decided need a belt ranking system. Incidently it wasn't until Karate became a "club" sport that it decided it needed a ranking system.
1/18/05 5:02 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Robkali
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 18-Jan-05
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 442
"I know a kid who is a 4th dan (Recommended Master) at the age of 17. A "Master" at 17?.... Give me a break!" Now, I'm not saying this kid is even remotely in the calss of this man (most likely not even close, LOL) but... Masahiko Kimura (1917-1993), judo 5th dan at 18, 7th dan obtained at age 29, is undoubtedly the greatest Judoka to ever live. He stood 5'6" (170 cm) tall and weighed 185 pounds
2/2/05 9:33 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Will2Learn
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 02-Feb-05
Member Since: 09/09/2003
Posts: 64
In the end it is just a belt. It represents something different to everyone in some personal way. Time, skill, effort, or what ever. In one year or eight, experience and focus will tell the tale. No matter how long it takes it is what you put into it and how you live with what you get out of it. Some take away a state of mind some a level of skill. "Know your self"

Reply Post

You must log in to post a reply. Click here to login.