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Weapons UnderGround >> San Miguel Eskrima


1/4/05 2:28 AM
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Paul Carroll
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Edited: 04-Jan-05
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Does anyone have any experience with this style ? Opinions, etc ?
1/4/05 12:42 PM
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Stickgrappler
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Edited: 04-Jan-05
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e. kaye has friends teaching it here in nyc. one of the instructors posts on the Dog Brothers forum, Guro Steve Lamade.
1/4/05 1:19 PM
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pelajar
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Edited: 04-Jan-05 01:54 PM
Member Since: 05/31/2002
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Mr. Carroll- I actually train with Mr. Steve Lamade in San Miguel Eskrima. It's a great system. My experience is in Pekiti Tirsia, and San Miguel's emphasis on the long range is great for me. Plus it's got a great continuity of movement, power generation, etc. that makes a whole lot of sense considering the range it prefers and in the context of a more "classical" espada y daga. If there's anything else I can help with just ask.... This is Steve's website that is a really good resource as well for San Miguel: http://northshoreac.com/san_miguel_eskrima/index.htm -wes tasker
1/4/05 4:18 PM
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sreiter
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Edited: 07-Jan-05 12:15 PM
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according to tuhon gaje - tom bisio was the best guy he ever taught - bisio left gaje/pekiti to train under mamoy (arguably the best of the cancette brothers - mamoy developed san maguel (doce pares is really a system made up of meny systems - the name doce pares just means 12 guys 9who started the club together) mamoy left the system to bisio (who no longer actively teachs) - while he was teaching (and to the very few private students he still may instruct) - he combine escrima with a chinese TMA (i forgot which one) my good friend Doug Marcdia is an instructor under bisio (gaje, mcgrath, and I think jun deleon) - he showed me a bunch of san miguel - very good stuff - not like other doce pares stuff where it's alot twriling - it's very combat oriented
1/5/05 6:40 PM
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e. kaye
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Edited: 05-Jan-05
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I know all of these guys. Tom is unbelievable. He teaches Chinese Arts these days, Bagua and Hsing I. Steve is a great guy and a good teacher. The long range aspects of San Miguel are extemely useful especially if you also know Pekiti. The flow from range to range is a great combination. There are also two other guys teaching it, James Seetoo and Ngo Vinh-Hoi(Hoi to his friends).
1/7/05 12:18 PM
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sreiter
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Edited: 07-Jan-05
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e.kaye - interesting, i heard tom was only doing chiro, or message, or something like that - other then some privates to a very select few
1/7/05 12:35 PM
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e. kaye
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Edited: 07-Jan-05
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That too. I do not think that he runs a school so to speak. I can find out easily.
1/7/05 11:52 PM
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lhommedieu
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Edited: 07-Jan-05
Member Since: 01/01/2001
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For information about Tom Bisio: www.tombisio.com Best, Steve Lamade
1/8/05 10:35 AM
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pahuyuth1
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Edited: 08-Jan-05
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 137
Look for Tom's upcoming articles in inside kung fu, starting in the issue after the one on the stands with Dennis Brown on the cover. His book A Tooth in The Tigers Mouth is quite good. Trained with Tom alot in the original school and he was an exceptional teacher.
1/8/05 2:05 PM
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lhommedieu
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Edited: 08-Jan-05
Member Since: 01/01/2001
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Tom's website (www.tombisio.com) gives information about his current Ba Gua class. I think that he is planning on scheduling a Xing Yi class this year. He teaches eskrima very infrequently - but could probably be coaxed into giving a seminar if there was sufficient interest. Wes Tasker modestly omits in his post above that he is a Mattass na Guro in Pekiti Tirsia Arnis under Tuhon William McGrath. He and I are planning on teaching a couple of seminars this spring that compare the espada y daga techniques of Pekiti Tirsia Arnis and San Miguel Eskrima. The seminar will be thematic insofar as what you're taught in one art will have a counterpart in the other art - and since the two arts are different you'll get a pretty good overview of espada y daga. Contact me at lhommedieu@hotmail.com if you're interested. See my review of Tom's book at www.amazon.com. I should mention also that if there are any bodyworkers on this forum, Tom teaches a 4-Part weekend series on Tui Na (Chinese Massage), as well as classes on Zheng Gu mobilizations, application of external herbs for martial arts injuries, Qi Gong, constitutional herbs, and acupucture for Zheng Gu mobilizations. As mentioned above, Tom is an outstanding teacher. Best, Steve Lamade www.northshoreac.com
1/23/05 6:56 PM
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Andes
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Edited: 23-Jan-05
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 291
question, how is the san miguel system different from Diony's version of doce pares? i'm an instructor under Dong Cuesta and Diony and practice the san miguel form. is bisio's system based around this form or is there more? thanks
1/24/05 5:30 PM
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Stickgrappler
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Edited: 24-Jan-05
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ttt
1/25/05 1:54 PM
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Robkali
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Edited: 25-Jan-05
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Ramon Rubia on the west coast also teaches San Miguel Eskrima: Instructor in Doce Pares Eskrima with boths GM Cacoy (Eskrima, Eskrido, Pangamut) and GM Dionisio Canete (Multi-Styles System) with a 6th Degree Black Belt Chief Instructor of Doce Pares International, California Chapter (12PARESGROUP) Official Representative of San Miguel Eskrima in the U.S. as approved, and sanctioned by the San Miguel Eskrima Group Council, Cebu City, Cebu (Nong Momoy’s Original Disciples, San Miguel Eskrima) Founded San Miguel Eskrima Association, USA. The objectives of this organization is to propagate, promote, perpetuate, and preserved the San Miguel Eskrima of GM Momoy Canete and give awareness to the FMA community.
1/26/05 11:31 PM
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lhommedieu
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Edited: 26-Jan-05
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Andes asked "question, how is the san miguel system different from Diony's version of doce pares? i'm an instructor under Dong Cuesta and Diony and practice the san miguel form. is bisio's system based around this form or is there more?" I'm not sure how Tom Bisio's San Miguel Eskrima differs from Diony's version of Doce Pares because I haven't seen DP's San Miguel Form or trained in Doce Pares. A few observations, however: Based upon what I've seen from Bart Hubbard's videos at www.capitaldocepares.com (both of Bart moving and the senior teachers from the Cebu San Miguel Eskrima group - all of whom trained under Momoy), a seminar tape of M. Diony teaching Espada y Daga at Dong Cuesta's school a few years ago, and M. Diony's Espada y Daga book (wherein he talks about Momoy Canete's influence upon his martial art in very positive terms), there are obvious, strong similarities between the various expressions of SME that are currently available from Doce Pares - and Tom Biso's expresson of the art. This is to be expected, since Dong Cuesta, Diony, Ramon Rubia, et. al. all trained with Momoy Canete and value his legacy. I think that Tom's SME differs more in terms of a quality of personal expression. Tom trained with Momoy during a period of time when he was concurrently training, and achieving teaching ranks, in Pekiti Tirsia, Chinese internal martial arts, and Kajukenbo. What impressed Tom about Momoy's art was the seemingly effortless manner in which Momoy issued power, and so I think that one of the things that Tom wants to stress in his teaching methodology are the internal connections that he sees in San Miguel Eskrima. Another difference may well be that Tom's SME is very conservative in nature; i.e., no movement is initiated without examining (and avoiding) the worst-case-scenario dangers. (This is not a knock against arts that are willing to exchange based upon a reliance on superior technique, some in which I train - but there is a difference in attitude, at least to my eyes.) I think also that there is a basic philosophical difference between the two organizations that promote SME in the United States. San Miguel Eskrima as taught by Doce Pares is described as Momoy's personal art within the context of Doce Pares Multi-Style. This is their right, as Momoy remained with his family until he passed - but Momoy had a voice too, and wanted Tom to make sure it was heard. To that end, Tom received Momoy's blessing to teach and promote San Miguel Eskrima in the United States in a manner that differentiated his art from Doce Pares. In real terms, this means that an older style eskrima that stresses the use of bladed weapons is given more due in Tom's version. It is interesting to note that Diony says the following in his Espada y Daga book: "When I started my training in Espada y Daga, I didn't encounter much problem because during that time "corto kurbada" was not yet popular. My father and Uncle Momoy used to call our attention everytime we did witic (curving snap strike), reminding that the olisi should be likened to a real blade and therefore must be delivered in a straight linear angle. Time has since changed. The strict assumption of the olisi as a bladed instrument has become irrelevent in view of the present practice in which the art of Espada y Daga is simply recognized as a form of Filipino martial art in which the players use one long and one short stick each as weapons. Nonetheless, many prefer to consider it as an art that could be fought either with a real blade or with any blunt instrument such as the stick [- and this is no doubt true of San Miguel Eskrima as taught by Doce Pares - my note]. [p. 37] In terms of the San Miguel Form, Tom learned one of the several versions that Momoy was teaching over a period of several years - versions that he kept revising over and over. I've been told that Tom's version is rather long in comparison to Doce Pares' San Miguel Form. The curriculum that Tom Bisio's San Miguel Eskrima Association follows can be found here: http://northshoreac.com/san_miguel_eskrima/training.htm As mentioned above, I am co-teaching an espada y daga seminar on April 30 in Whitestone (Queens) New York; I'd be happy to demonstrate my version of the San Miguel Form during the break. Best, Steve Lamade
1/27/05 12:37 AM
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sreiter
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Edited: 27-Jan-05 12:38 AM
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i trained a few times with cacoy, a few times with Dionisio and their stuff is quite different then the san miguel i was taught by doug (tom's student_ the doce pares was much more flashy/twirly the SM - just look at the DP compitions - the winners are those who can get off the most/fastest stikes ( a lot of abinico's) it doesnt matter if you've eaten 5 good power shots to the head frist - Is the Ramon you're talking about married to a cancete ? He lives (or did) in orange county - irvine or something? I remember going to their house - IIRC he was married to Cacoy's grand daughter - I was under the impression that he practiced and taught Cacoys version of DP - not mamoys I was around when he started his backyard group and was going to join, but something came up
1/27/05 5:19 PM
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lhommedieu
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Edited: 27-Jan-05
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Ramon Rubia teaches San Miguel Eskrima in California. He trained with Momoy and with Momoy's senior students in Cebu, and makes frequent trips to the Philippines to research the art. Best, Steve Lamade
1/27/05 8:38 PM
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sreiter
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Edited: 27-Jan-05
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ok, but is that the ramone i'm talking about ?
1/27/05 9:16 PM
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lhommedieu
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Edited: 27-Jan-05
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sreiter, You are correct. For more information: http://www.capitaldocepares.com/articles/ramonBio.htm Best, Steve Lamade
1/28/05 1:33 PM
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Robkali
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Edited: 28-Jan-05
Member Since: 01/01/2001
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*sigh* no one reads my posts... I already wrote that above... And yes, Ramon's wife is Eva Canete...
1/28/05 4:48 PM
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lhommedieu
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Edited: 28-Jan-05
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Rob, I read all your posts. I quick google search confirms that, apart from www.usadojo.com, Bart Hubbard's website above is a decent link to information about Ramon Rubia. Best, Steve Lamade
1/30/05 12:40 PM
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TrueFightScholar
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Edited: 30-Jan-05
Member Since: 01/01/2001
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Hold old is San Miguel Eskrima? What's the history behind the style?
1/30/05 5:22 PM
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lhommedieu
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Edited: 30-Jan-05
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TFS, Re. the historical development of San Miguel Eskrima: The following information is taken from my website at http://northshoreac.com/san_miguel_eskrima/momoy.htm. "Filemon De La Cuesta Canete ("Momoy" to his friends) was born in 1904 on the island of Cebu, Philippines. He and his brothers were taught eskrima by their father, Gregorio "Oyong" Canete, and their uncle, Pedro Canete. As he grew older, Momoy studied with eskrimadors from the San Fernando region of Cebu, including Lieutenant Cipriano Aranas, Huanso Tecson, Juan Takya, Goriong Tagalog, Andres Suarez and Tito de Goma. In 1920, the family moved to the San Nicolas district of Cebu City, and he began to study with Lorenzo "Tatay Ensong" Saavedra and his nephew Teodoro "Doring" Saavedra. Momoy also explored faith healing with Don Tecson, who was known as a faith healer and wild animal catcher. He later studied Combat Judo with Jeseus Cui and blended its principles with his eskrima. Jesus Cui was also versed in espada y daga (Punta y Daga) and Tapi-Tapi. He is credited with orienting Momoy towards a traditional mid- to long-range style of eskrima, in contrast to the shorter-range styles that were becoming more popular. His eskrima was sometimes referred to as the "Batangueno" style. "In 1932, the Canete brothers and the Saavedras were the principle organizers of the Doce Pares Club. Momoy was officially listed as one of the Sergeants at Arms. Momoy considered the Saavedras to be his main teachers, and the stick and dagger methods that he later developed into his method of eskrima are based directly on their teachings. The style of Eskrima practiced by the Saavedra family consisted mainly of counters to the different angles of attack, and Tapi-Tapi - a form of controlled sparring at close quarters that emphasized the use of the empty hand to monitor and control the opponent's weapon. In addition, Doring Saavedra taught a method of espada y daga that utilized the daga in a manner that was similar to the use of the empty hand in tapi-tapi. Momoy concentrated on espada y daga in his own training because he considered it the most difficult style to master. He developed extensive footwork skills to allow him to evade an attack and move back in quickly with a powerful counter-strike or thrust, and created a more aggressive role for the dagger, which could now be used both to monitor and control an opponent's weapons as well as to attack the opponent with thrusts. Momoy also introduced practice with the spear, an ancient weapon that had fallen into disregard during the Spanish occupation. He linked the movements of the spear to those of the stick and dagger, and added the ananangkil, chain, bullwhip, and throwing knife to his arsenal of weapons. These were all used as weapons in their own right, but also to develop attributes that Momoy considered essential to his method of eskrima." For additional information: www.eskrima.com www.capitaldocepares.com Best, Steve Lamade
1/31/05 12:15 AM
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TrueFightScholar
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Edited: 31-Jan-05
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Steve, Thank you! Interesting stuff. Peace, TFS
1/31/05 2:52 PM
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Robkali
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Edited: 31-Jan-05
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 481
Steve, I was just messin' around... LOL By the way, I always enjoy reading your posts here & over on MartialTalk.. see ya Rob

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