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Weapons UnderGround >> Empty Hand vs Weapons


1/31/05 11:47 AM
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Demitrius Barbito
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Edited: 31-Jan-05
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 503
The CSPT
 
This has been a big focus for us over the past year. Going empty hands vs a knife or a stick or O.C. or a gun. The training focus has been very benifical. Likewise we've been doing the opposite and focusing on retention. There is a false confidence in having a weapon if you are untrained and undeveloped. Many who train weapon vs weapon get a little confused about using it against an unarmed opponent. After some training they see it differently. Demi www.DemiBarbito.com
1/31/05 1:48 PM
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NODAN
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Edited: 31-Jan-05
Member Since: 06/05/2002
Posts: 2
Can we expect a DVD on this subject? Thanks -- ho
1/31/05 3:20 PM
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finnfighter
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Edited: 31-Jan-05
Member Since: 03/23/2002
Posts: 480
What was the point of your post, Demi?
1/31/05 4:29 PM
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Demitrius Barbito
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Edited: 31-Jan-05
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 504
The CSPT
The point was to see what the responses might be to such subjects as empty hand vs various weapons. Not many places feel the need to train these elements in a realistic manner, if at all.
1/31/05 8:53 PM
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finnfighter
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Edited: 31-Jan-05
Member Since: 03/23/2002
Posts: 502
Well, it certainly is worthwhile to train it, especially to leo:s. And the attacks have to be violent, often I noticed that the unarmed attacker did a half-hearted attempt because he thought that he didnt have a change anyway against the "deadly" filipino stick etc.. Guys on the street dont know youve practised defanging the snake ..:)
2/3/05 3:35 PM
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krept
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Edited: 03-Feb-05
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 4197
IMO just because they are unarmed doesn't mean they can't be armed in two seconds with YOUR weapon. If someone doesn't back down to repeated commands to STOP and you cannot retreat (wife, kids, whatever) it should be on. Even if you haven't drawn/brandished your weapon, it could easily become dislodged in a scuffle, not to mention you might be beaten to death. knowing the law is key. out here, if a reasonable person is in fear that they will be seriously injured or killed, lethal force is warranted. cheers
2/3/05 7:11 PM
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finnfighter
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Edited: 03-Feb-05
Member Since: 03/23/2002
Posts: 665
Yeah, well if its clear that someone is going for your holstered weapon here, you can smack the shit out of him. Even if your a rent-a-cop, and its pepperspray. (10 pages of legal babble in a nutshell:) Still, you have to be really convincing to kill an unarmed attacker if you have a gun..shoot the leg is the rule. And a good-one it is, too..
2/3/05 10:10 PM
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Demitrius Barbito
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Edited: 03-Feb-05
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 505
The CSPT
"""Still, you have to be really convincing to kill an unarmed attacker""" At 2:00am in the hallway the goal is to stay ahead of the power curve.
2/3/05 10:19 PM
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finnfighter
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Edited: 03-Feb-05
Member Since: 03/23/2002
Posts: 694
In Finland, killing an unarmed citizen means bad news. Trust me. K9 patrol killed a mental patient walking at them with a hatchet held high. Shot him in the legs couple of times, after he landed on the ground from the first shot and tried to get up.Femoral artery. Thing is, they didnt try to use the dog first, or pepper spray etc. Conviction. Thats a fact. Different rules here..
3/6/05 7:39 AM
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Crafty Dog
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Edited: 06-Mar-05
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 73
Woof All: In Dog Brothers fights we have seen MANY examples of what can happen when someone who loses his stick, thus creating a "stick vs. EH" scenario. By far the most common result is that the still armed man with the stick feels confident and tends to surge forward-- which helps the the man without the stick, who was instantly and completely persuaded of the need to close (very "no-mind?) to close and tie up the stick. This is so common we even have a name for it "the Desperation Close". In DBMA, we have specific material for the stick, short stick and palm stick against the larger, younger, stronger, more aggressive problem. If you haven't worked specifically this area under some sort of unspoken assumption that if you have a stick and he doesn't that all will be easily handled, you many be surprised. Woof, Crafty Dog
3/8/05 12:59 AM
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MBW
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Edited: 08-Mar-05
Member Since: 11/18/2002
Posts: 34
The Red Zone program Jerry Wetzel developed is wonderful. Empty hand knife defense, baby! -Matt W. www.centerlinegym.com
3/15/05 8:05 AM
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Danger Dave
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Edited: 15-Mar-05
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 996
Finn, that's why shooting someone anywhere is considered deadly force. I don't believe anyone - cops included - is trained to shoot for the legs here in the US. Now, the legs are a favorite target for the baton... Here, they might have been convicted because if they could take a chance on a leg shot, they must not have felt they were in serious danger. Strange, I know, but I wouldn't want to try to convince a jury that I was in immediate peril, but I still went for the leg shot.
4/3/05 11:41 PM
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Gossamer
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Edited: 03-Apr-05
Member Since: 11/14/2004
Posts: 287
Fighting with a weapon beats unarmed combat hands down, no pun intended. That being said you have to train for both or you are being a fool. What happens if someone gets a hold of you before you can get your whizz bang folding knife out?
4/11/05 12:21 PM
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ukcblaze
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Edited: 11-Apr-05
Member Since: 11/25/2002
Posts: 33
I can't see how anyone could be a "knife fighting" expert and not be locked up. How many people here have used a knife in a real life situation? There are emotions running through your head that can't be reproduced in training. Just the thought of killing another human being would stop most people in there tracks. If you are talking a blunt object vs a knife that is one thing. But if you are dumb enough to try and fight knife vs knife you will loose either way. I would on any day use empty hand vs knife rather then pull out a knife. I have a way better chance of taking control of the situation long enough for me to get the f*!k out of Dodge. Jerry Wetzel's Red Zone is the best program I have seen on the subject. Take a look at the dvd's and you can see just what I am talking about. www.centerlinegym.com Danny

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