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Roy Harris >> Arm-bar - from guard. Tips guys?


3/5/05 7:53 PM
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charleschoi
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Edited: 05-Mar-05
Member Since: 08/17/2003
Posts: 69
 
Roy, I've just started looking at the armbar from guard. A couple of things that were pointed out to me were (1) to get your body side on, (2) break your opponent's posture whilst turning and (3) maintain good control on the arm so that you're pulling your opponent into you. Do you have any tips on how to set the guy up, so that you can bring his arm accross?
3/6/05 2:33 AM
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Roy Harris
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Edited: 06-Mar-05
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 1234
charleschoi, Getting the straight arm lock from the guard is a difficult task. It is one that requires great mechanics, good positioning and phenomenal timing. The hard part is all three of these must come together at the same time. Turning your body to the side is important. Breaking an opponent's posture is only necessary when you want to perform the lock a specific way. There are other methods to applying an arm lock even when the opponent it still in posture. In the beginning, posture is a good way of neutralizing an opponent's leverage over your body. At the higher levels, posture is an exposure. In other words, it leaves your arm vulnerable to attack by those who know how to exploit it. Maintaining good control over the arm is important for finishing the lock. However, it is unimportant for finishing the match. If a person is dead set on finishing their opponent with the straight arm lock, well, the more experienced an opponent is, the more difficult that task is. If you do not establish control over the opponent's arm, it does not mean you will be unable to finish them. It simply means the arm lock will be more difficult because he will be able to pull his arm free. However, the simple act of pulling his arm free leads you into another submission. Does all of this make sense? Good training to you, Roy Harris
3/6/05 5:39 PM
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charleschoi
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Edited: 06-Mar-05
Member Since: 08/17/2003
Posts: 70
Roy, Very much appreciate your response! Thanks for that! What you say does make sense - body turn is important, just as my instructor said too. I'll be experimenting with some setups, and grips to get the guy's arm over and deep in my guard. Got any advice on how to get the guy's arm accross your body? Or, is it more a situational thing - that "pops" up? Right now, I'm just gripping at the sleeve and the back of the tricep and pulling the opponent's arm toward my head then to the side. I'm finding it's not really working. I think you're right when you say that timing, mechanics and position, are paramount. Hope to get it one day! Charles
3/7/05 11:33 AM
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Roy Harris
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Edited: 07-Mar-05
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 1237
charleschoi, You asked, "....any advice on how to get the guy's arm accross your body?" Well, here are a few: 1. Pull it across centerline yourself. 2. Lead him into pulling it across himself. 3. Finish the arm lock without the arm across centerline. Now, if you say you can't pull it across centerline, you might be tempted to say you can't because he is too strong. Well, he is only as strong as your timing. If the arm cannot be pulled across centerline, then push it to the same side of the body it is on and finish with another technique. If you ask, "How do I lead him into putting his arm close to the position I need it to be in to finish the lock?" Well, all you have to do is find a way to get him to put his hand or forearm in centerline. However, you will only have a split second to pull it across. So your timing must also be good with this as well. If you ask, "How do I finish the arm lock without pulling the arm across centerline, easy: Just finish the lock. Pulling the arm across centerline is not necessary for all straight arm locks. It is for some, but not for all. If you are still left wondering, take a few private lessons from your instructor to learn more arm locks from the guard. You will find there are several that do not need the arm pulled across centerline. Good training to you, Roy Harris
3/11/05 11:55 AM
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hackett
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Edited: 11-Mar-05
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 2303
TTT!
3/17/05 11:24 AM
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jonpall
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Edited: 17-Mar-05
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 6709
My white belt opinion: If you are working on the fairly standard armbar in which you put a foot on the hip, try setting it up with the triangle setup in which you push the arm to the outside (let me know if you don't know that GREAT move) and snake your leg past the inside of the arm and onto the neck. When you are close to getting your shin in his bicep, i.e. in the very beginning stages of the move, he will often extend his arm and then you can try dragging it across while pivoting your hips in the opposite direction. From there, either put your leg straight over his head or first on top of his shoulder and then over his head. Practise this over and over, gradually increasing the restance. Note that if you are armbarring his right arm, you will shrimp your hips to your right to start the triangle attack, but then pivot your hips to your left to start the armbar attack. This is basically an example application of Roy's item number 2. Cheers, jonpall.
3/17/05 12:59 PM
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demandango
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Edited: 17-Mar-05
Member Since: 01/01/2001
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jonpall, could you please describe: "try setting it up with the triangle setup in which you push the arm to the outside (let me know if you don't know that GREAT move)"... i want to make sure it's what i am thinking of. thanks.
3/17/05 7:03 PM
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jonpall
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Edited: 17-Mar-05
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 6716
Ok: Grab your opponent's right wrist with your left hand and his head with your right hand. Shrimp your hips out to your right (so that you will be a bit on your left side). Push his wrist to the outside and move your left knee, then shin and then foot past the inside of his right bicep and get your left leg on top of his neck. Then finish the triangle. You keep his head down all the time with your right hand and your right leg (which is high on his back). Often you can start not with the wrist grab but rather push his right bicep out a bit with your left forearm. A very similar move can be done by a) overhooking his left arm and b) wrapping your right arm so deep over his head that you actually grab his right armpit, your arm going past the front of his right shoulder.
5/15/05 11:49 AM
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TheStewedOwl
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Edited: 15-May-05
Member Since: 06/08/2002
Posts: 5720
ttt
5/19/05 3:58 PM
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Rainman
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Edited: 19-May-05
Member Since: 04/28/2005
Posts: 84
I won't insult Roy by adding the view of a Blue belt. Everything he says is all you need to know.
5/20/05 7:35 AM
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jonpall
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Edited: 20-May-05
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 6938
"I won't insult Roy by adding the view of a Blue belt. Everything he says is all you need to know. " This is the old style, Japanese martial arts way of thinking. In other words, never question your instructor and never try to think of solutions yourself. Just do exactly what sensei says. "Everything he says is all you need to know" Everything he says is NOT all HE knows about a particular subject, because he, and no one, doesn't have the time to write that much on a single thread. You might want and need to know a bit more, in some cases. Therefore, this statement is false. Don't get me wrong. Roy rules. He's one of the best instructors I've seen. But have some induviduality and critical thinking, people. (Apologizes in a Japanese style for having been caught in a strange mood today and therefore written the above post. And bows.)
5/20/05 10:48 AM
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JRockwell
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Edited: 20-May-05
Member Since: 03/13/2002
Posts: 1833
lol, nice post, JP.

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