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Scott Sonnon >> Hillarious Flow-fighting response


7/11/02 3:45 PM
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Sonnon
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Edited: 11-Jul-02
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 407
 
My office received this email in response to my releasing FLOW-FIGHTING: "With all due respects, you are describing Kung-Fu San Soo, an original fighting art that has been in existence for thousands of years. I am sure your instructors are awesome fighters, but research this art and you will see some powerful simularities. I wish you much success with your videos." Sincerely, Master Lawrence Rouse :)
7/11/02 4:15 PM
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Neckcranku
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Edited: 11-Jul-02
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 331
;)
7/12/02 12:46 AM
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MrBlackisback
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Edited: 12-Jul-02
Member Since: 27-Apr-02
Posts: 11
It all makes sense now! The Russians stole their system from the Scars mob, the scars mob stole it from the San Soo mob, so they have to look alike! *rolling eyes* If I'm not mistaken, wasn't San Soo developed in the 1960's when the Chinese wanted to develop a single fighting style for the police and military? Who would think such controversy could arise from the otherwise peaceful online martial arts community! *rolls eyes again*
7/12/02 10:16 AM
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Streetwise
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Edited: 12-Jul-02
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 53
Only so many ways to move and utilize the basic human structure. It makes sense that there are similar ideas from several sources. Some of the Mr Sonnon"s stuff fits very well into a BaGua curriculum, believe it or not. And, even though some of the SPEAR students went ballistic the last time I said this, Xing I works really well to enhance a lot of Mr Blauer's recent work. Does this mean that any one is "stealing"? No, it means that the interconnectivity of human thought is a concept that is beyond most people. As far as the San Soo guys, they practice a relatively young style, that draws from a lot of sources. Why do Kung Fu styles have to ALL claim a 5000 year lineage? Neither "old" nor "new" is synonomous with "good".
7/12/02 12:11 PM
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tmorenz
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Edited: 12-Jul-02
Member Since: 30-Oct-00
Posts: 6
Scott, This absurdity reminds me of the time when I was discussing religion with a very ignorant person who replied, "Well, if the King James Version of the Bible was good enough for Jesus and his disciples, then it's good enough for me!" LOL *sigh* t.
7/15/02 1:03 AM
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Chad Hamzeh
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Edited: 15-Jul-02
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 1249
man, Scott we alllll knew that 8-) I plan on hooking up with this tape because I've gotten all your flow fighting questions wrong on the UG! haha.... C
7/15/02 9:24 AM
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IronMonkey
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Edited: 15-Jul-02
Member Since: 14-Mar-02
Posts: 102
I concur with what Streetwise said. Actually when a friend showed me abit of what he saw of Ross and from what I read of Ross, it sounded amazingly similar to Chinese martial arts, specifically Bagua. I also thought the same of SPEAR and xingyi. However the concepts, terminologies and explanations of Sonnon or Blauer are more detailed and scientific than most teachers in CMA I know or read about. No offence intended and hope none is taken.
7/15/02 12:05 PM
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Sonnon
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Edited: 15-Jul-02
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 428
IM, actually I find that to be a complement. I hold great respect for TCMA (as presented to me by professional coaches like MMA.com member "Shooter").
7/15/02 2:42 PM
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Glenn Sunshine
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Edited: 15-Jul-02
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 31
I've commented a number of times in different forums that ROSS and the tai chi and kung fu I do integrate extremely well, and that ROSS has done more for my tai chi (including the chi flow, whatever that is precisely) than working tai chi directly. In fact, I suspect ROSS is a short cut to some elements of TCMA. Yours, Glenn
7/17/02 10:29 PM
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Sonnon
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Edited: 17-Jul-02
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 434
Luke, I was actually banned from their forum. Run a search on my name. :)
7/18/02 10:42 AM
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Streetwise
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Edited: 18-Jul-02 10:54 AM
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 57
Don't get me started on the morons that frequent the Kung Fu forums. I think Kungfuonline is still debating "possible Chinese influences on Russian folk medicine", and what YOU should call YOUR work. Of course, I think they are also still debating whether the world will end on Jan 1st 2000 or JAn 1st 2001, so there you go.
7/18/02 10:54 AM
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Neckcranku
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Edited: 18-Jul-02
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 348
"I was actually banned from their forum"... LOL
7/18/02 11:27 AM
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Sonnon
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Edited: 18-Jul-02 11:34 AM
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 438
Streetwise, I'm sure that my training background received both direct and indirect influence from TCMA. However, let's look at the logic of their discussion: 1. I've had (some type of) influence and learned lessons from TCMA, so why not make a lifestyle out of it? 2. Influence is lesser than "pure source." There is no evolution, only dilution. 3. Therefore, I should stop what I'm doing and just "learn" the pure source, & quit "propagandizing" the "community" with claims of my system being "Russian." Now, let's analyze this: 1. I've had (some type of) influence and learned lessons from constipation, but I've never made a lifestyle out of it. In all seriousness, we've all been influenced by everyone and everything by 6 degrees, says Kevin Bacon. And I'll take his opinion over a Shaolin Monk, since we all know that Kevin Bacon is an enlightened being. :) 2. Damn. The Neanderthal must have been a really smart cracker. Henry Ford's Model T would have been able to dust a Lamborghini. And why the heck does the International Olympic Committee keep fudging the world records so that each new Games breaks the prior records? 3. The funny thing about evolution is that one whom evolves never stops learning from ANY source, though is skeptical of all until they have been proven by trial in the crucible. The damn thing about these genius internet warriors is that their mentality states that they do not need trial against uncooperative opponents because their techniques are too deadly and were proven in battle 300 years ago. (Their comments do not represent all TCMA, like proven, tough fighters/coaches such as MMA.com member "Shooter".) Secondly, what I teach is AMERICAN, not Russian, because guess what? Me is 'merican. Enough levity. Now back to your regularly scheduled posting...
7/18/02 11:52 AM
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Hissho
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Edited: 18-Jul-02
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 42
I've found the same is true in the traditional jujutsu and aikijujutsu world.
7/18/02 12:24 PM
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Sonnon
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Edited: 18-Jul-02
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 441
Funny, Kit, I found the same in ALL communities... "Why do we do it? I don't know. TRADITION! TRADITION. TRADITION." Name that musical. ... and the reverse argument as well from the "Modern, Eclectics." Today's modernist is tomorrow's traditionalist.
7/18/02 2:40 PM
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Dark Knight
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Edited: 18-Jul-02
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 279
"I was actually banned from their forum. " That explains the reactions to you on the kung fu magazine forum. People dont want thier worlds rocked. When you give an opinion not in line with theirs they become upset. If it hasn't been around for 5,000 years or in China its gotta be crap. Some people need to empty their cups.
7/18/02 2:49 PM
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Shawn Mozen
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Edited: 18-Jul-02
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 11
People wrap themselves up with tradition like a security blanket. With tradition wrapped around them they are safe from those nagging questions that some martial artist grapple with day and night, you know those nasty little things like why, how, and when? Maybe we should all wrap ourselves in this protective cocoon, I know I might be able to actually get some sleep if I did rather than staring at the ceiling and questioning the days lessons. The problem with the safety of a security blanket is that it smothers you and impedes your growth. Its not even a black and white question of tradition vs. the eclectic. Its a matter of those that think everything has been answered and answered by whatever it is they do. Some claim that the age of a concept or technique gives it legitimacy. Thats like saying we train for track and field the exact same way they did in the first Olympics! Wow...sign me up! There was a thread on here somewhere that contained an interview with Oleg Y. in which he said something like 'many students just want to be entertained.' Unfortunatly I think this is correct. Many want to be entertained by their instructors and they want to know that they with all their wisdom have chosen the best school and style in the world. This thread would be funny if it wasn't so sad. Shawn
7/18/02 3:52 PM
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Streetwise
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Edited: 18-Jul-02
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 58
I really like the depth of some of the Chinese styles. I really hate the way that those who can't comprehend what their own styles are saying have to make it into a sort of religion, in order to validate their own confusion.
7/18/02 8:02 PM
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Hissho
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Edited: 18-Jul-02
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 43
I guess yer right, coach. At least the modern eclectics can't claim that what they do was "born on the battlefield, ergo it is by definition more effective in combat." But I guess they'll always have "We train Navy Seals! Combat Commandos use this art! SWAT operators say this is the best thing since vegemite!" Such a sad state of affairs. Kit
7/20/02 9:53 AM
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IronMonkey
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Edited: 20-Jul-02
Member Since: 14-Mar-02
Posts: 104
Mr Sonnon- How'd you get banned from cyberkwoon? Usually you get banned only if you're being highly disrecpectful and from your posts you always seem to be courteous and respectful. Guess they must be more loony that I previously thought.
7/20/02 11:43 AM
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Sonnon
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Edited: 20-Jul-02
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 450
IM, just so search on my name and read the dialogue. It's pretty self-explanatory.
7/21/02 2:29 AM
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beautifullvalley
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Edited: 21-Jul-02
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 59
don't call shooter a coach its just plain bad carm and like three check marks on the tally sheet he's a senior training partner

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