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HolyGround >> Questions on Demons


3/26/05 7:04 PM
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slysir
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Edited: 26-Mar-05
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My question is this, what exactly are demons?? I know it says that satan took a third or something of the angels with him, correct??? My exact question stems from a link to a exorcism in Russian thats on the "Other Ground forum",and also movies. If demons are actually evil angels, which means they are stronger and I suppose smarter than us (humans). Why are they alway portraid (sp?) to us as growling,snarling lunatic like creatures, correct?? Is it Hollywood/fake or not?? I kind of get upset when the devil, especially in catholic literature, portaying him as a green, slithering like monster, when the bible itself says he's beautiful. If he's beautful wouldnt those who followed him be as he is. What makes them evil/unclean is their hate towards us and God and their pride/intent/what is inside, which is evil. but their appearance would not be ugly as they are shown. 2nd Corinthians 11:14 so would you say these accounts are true and if so what do you think they are
3/26/05 7:37 PM
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Ridgeback
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Edited: 26-Mar-05
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What Catholic literature portrays the devil as green and slithering? Is this meant to be taken literally. I think popular pictures of the devil which are in part based on artistic renderings (never meant to be take literally) tend to get mixed up with serious descriptions. There are indications, though, that when demons possess humans they act through the human in foul ways. I don't know if their actual appearances suffer from their fall but their inner hearts or spirits do and this ugliness seems to manifest itself through the human victim.
3/26/05 7:37 PM
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reverend john
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Edited: 26-Mar-05
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There is a book called the beautiful side of evil that talks about this a bit, and tells the story of a converted medium and healer. You made some good points, I am not sure what I think about it, but it would seem that hatred can and does make people go mad, so why not angels? the rev
3/26/05 8:18 PM
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DonnaTroy
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Edited: 26-Mar-05
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People, in the past, would wear fantasies of animals when they got into battles, to scare their enemies. There are mean spirits that will disguise themselves in ugly ways too, so they can scare people. Demons are spirits, just like you and me. Nothing less, nothing more. Of course, Hollywood likes to make things scarier. ;-) dai·mon ( P ) Pronunciation Key (dmn) also de·mon or dae·mon (dmn) n. Greek Mythology -An inferior deity, such as a deified hero. -An attendant spirit; a genius. [Greek daimn. See d- in Indo-European Roots.] de·mon ( P ) Pronunciation Key (dmn)n. -An evil supernatural being; a devil. -A persistently tormenting person, force, or passion: the demon of drug addiction. -One who is extremely zealous, skillful, or diligent: worked away like a demon; a real demon at math. Variant of daimon.
3/26/05 8:45 PM
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slysir
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Edited: 26-Mar-05
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thanks Ridgeback for your insight, but would you say the exorsism's portrayed in movie's etc... are demons or a hoax. just something ive wondered but just speaking from how I was raised (which was catholic upbringing) the devil was alway taught as something very ugly,dragonlike and someone you would be able to recognize just by looking at him. I never noticed or was taught it was symbolic until i read the bible for myself many, many times. The symbolism of satan was never taught. My family (catholic adults) still see's satan as something they can see, as in a monsterous being. Not as ( as I think)someone invisible and not noticable unless you read his work in the bible and see his actual fingerprints on your life, which they cant see and wouldnt recognize. I am not a catholic at all any longer (and very disturbed by "ALL" their teachings) and after reading the bible it seems, as a teacher once told me, the devil would rather us believe he doesnt exist like many believe, so he could work in this world. which makes complete sense. I just feel a possession like one in the exorcist and those simialar would not, be done by those described to us as powers, ruler and spirtual forces in the heavenly realms. Rev- any info on the author or where I can find this book
3/26/05 9:21 PM
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slysir
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Edited: 26-Mar-05
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"Demons are spirits, just like you and me. Nothing less, nothing more." On the contrary, they are much more, which is why I say they are stonger. The bible describes them as very powerful. An instance is where the Archeangel Michael had to intervene because the messenger (an angel) wasnt strong enough and needed michael. I am speaking through bible accounts, not really historical account of spiritism.
3/26/05 10:03 PM
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DonnaTroy
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Edited: 26-Mar-05
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Minotauro is stronger than me, just like Cro-cop. ;-) What is the power that an invisible person may have upon you? It is just like a "big brother". He may know secrets that you think are well hidden. Or a group of spirits may follow people you know. But they don´t know the future. The true power comes from God. Spirits are simply humans.
3/26/05 10:04 PM
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reverend john
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Edited: 26-Mar-05
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I don't remember the authors name, just the book title. Google? the rev
3/27/05 9:29 AM
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Jacob Lamb
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3/27/05 9:30 AM
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Jacob Lamb
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"Spirits are simply humans" ???
3/27/05 11:49 AM
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The Detriment
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Edited: 27-Mar-05
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Last night at the Easter vigil, the priest told a story about St. Theresa of Avila. She was meditating when suddenly, she had a vision of the risen Jesus Christ, shining in all of his glory. She looked at him and said, "Get out of here, Satan." At that point, the risen Christ was transformed into the foul, ugly image of Satan. Satan asked St. Theresa, "How did you know it was me?" St. Theresa answered, "You didn't have any wounds." I also found it interesting that, during baptisms, they ask the to-be-baptized, "Do you reject the glamour of evil?"
3/27/05 4:46 PM
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The Detriment
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Memnock- Not stupid, prideful. That's why pride is the greatest of sins.
3/27/05 6:15 PM
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martial_shadow
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Edited: 27-Mar-05
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no- betrayel, read the inferno.
3/27/05 7:32 PM
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jonwell
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I love the Inferno. I have the version with the original Italian text next to the translated English. Good stuff.
3/29/05 10:49 PM
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slysir
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Edited: 29-Mar-05
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"Not stupid, prideful" Completely correct. The question im posing is, a being, whether it being spirtual,physical,vapor or however it chooses to show itself. It doesnt make no sense that a being, heavenly or otherwise, with thousands of years of experience on how to manipulate us would act the way they are portayed. I personally (and this is just my oppinion) look at the devil as a lurker. Watching and manipulating correct?? Makes me wonder of those whom are probably really possessed and we wouldnt be able to see them because were basically programed by hollywood or religions to look for something else Im just finding it difficult to picture in my mind a once heavenly angel (evil of course) acting with no mind. Sorry for the long post, just something that has always never made sense to me
3/30/05 10:21 AM
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Silly Fat Wrestler
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Edited: 30-Mar-05
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read the inferno

More of a fan of Paradise Lost, myself

4/8/05 1:38 AM
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slysir
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Edited: 08-Apr-05
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4/26/10 2:06 PM
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Seamus619
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ttt

4/29/10 2:28 AM
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Juijitsuboxer
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Here is good thread on the subject:

http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=449167
4/29/10 2:32 AM
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Juijitsuboxer
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Catechism:

THE FALL OF THE ANGELS

391 Behind the disobedient choice of our first parents lurks a seductive voice, opposed to God, which makes them fall into death out of envy. Scripture and the Church's Tradition see in this being a fallen angel, called "Satan" or the "devil".The Church teaches that Satan was at first a good angel, made by God: "The devil and the other demons were indeed created naturally good by God, but they became evil by their own doing."

392 Scripture speaks of a sin of these angels. This "fall" consists in the free choice of these created spirits, who radically and irrevocably rejected God and his reign. We find a reflection of that rebellion in the tempter's words to our first parents: "You will be like God." The devil "has sinned from the beginning"; he is "a liar and the father of lies".

393 It is the irrevocable character of their choice, and not a defect in the infinite divine mercy, that makes the angels' sin unforgivable. "There is no repentance for the angels after their fall, just as there is no repentance for men after death."

394 Scripture witnesses to the disastrous influence of the one Jesus calls "a murderer from the beginning", who would even try to divert Jesus from the mission received from his Father. "The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil." In its consequences the gravest of these works was the mendacious seduction that led man to disobey God.

395 The power of Satan is, nonetheless, not infinite. He is only a creature, powerful from the fact that he is pure spirit, but still a creature. He cannot prevent the building up of God's reign. Although Satan may act in the world out of hatred for God and his kingdom in Christ Jesus, and although his action may cause grave injuries - of a spiritual nature and, indirectly, even of a physical nature- to each man and to society, the action is permitted by divine providence which with strength and gentleness guides human and cosmic history. It is a great mystery that providence should permit diabolical activity, but "we know that in everything God works for good with those who love him."
4/29/10 2:33 AM
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Juijitsuboxer
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Irenaeus Against Heresies, Book II, 32:4 (190 A.D.) - "For some (Christians do certainly and truly drive out devils, so that those who have thus been cleansed from evil spirits frequently both believe and join themselves to the church." DELIVERANCE is also implied to be done by Christians in Book II, 31:2.

Justin Martyr, Second Apology, Ch. 8 (153 A.D.) - This apology was addressed to the Roman Senate. "And they (demons), having been shut up in eternal fire, shall suffer their just punishment and penalty. For if they are even now overthrown by men through the Name of Jesus Christ, this is an intimation of the punishment in eternal fire which is to be inflicted on themselves and those who serve them."

Justin Martyr, Second Apology, Ch. 6 - "And now you (Roman Senate) can learn this from what is under your own observation. For numberless demoniacs throughout the whole world, and in your city, many of our Christian men exorcising them in the Name of Jesus Christ, who was crucified under Pontius Pilate, have healed and do heal, rendering helpless and driving the demons out of men, though they could not be cured by all the other exorcists, and those who used incantations and drugs."

Justin Martyr, Dialogue With Trypho, a Jew, Ch. 30 (150 A.D.) - "For we call Him (Jesus) Helper and Redeemer, the power of whose name even the demons do fear; and at this day, when they are exorcised in the Name of Jesus Christ, they are overcome."

Dialogue With Trypho, Ch. 76 - "And now we, who believe on our Lord Jesus, who was crucified under Pontius Pilate, when we exorcise all demons and evil spirits, have them subjected to us."

Dialogue With Trypho, Ch. 85 - "For every demon, when exorcised in the Name of this very Son of God...is overcome and subdued. But though you exorcise any demon in the name of any of those who were amongst you--either kings, righteous men, or prophets or patriarchs--it will not be subject to you. Now assuredly your (Jewish) exorcists, I have said, make use of this craft when they exorcise, even as the Gentiles do, and employ fumigations and incantations."

Tatian, Address of Tatian to the Greeks, Ch. 16 (160 A.D.) - "Sometimes they themselves (demons) disturb the habit of the body by a tempest of folly; but, being smitten by the Word of God, they depart in terror, and the sick man is healed.

Theophilus, Theophilus to Autolycus, Book II. 8 (160-180 A.D.) - Theophilus is refuting the false teachings of Homer and Hesiod who were famous Greek poets. "...And this clearly appears from the fact, that even to this day the demonized are sometimes exorcised in the Name of the living and true God and these spirits of error themselves confess that they are demons who also formerly inspired these writers (Homer and Hesiod)."

Tertullian, Apology, Ch. 23 (197 A.D.) - "Let a person be brought before your tribunals; who is plainly under demonic possession. The wicked spirit, BIDDEN TO SPEAK by a follower of Christ, will as readily make the truthful confession that he is a demon, as elsewhere he has falsely asserted that he is a god."

Tertullian, Apology, Ch. 37 - "Who would save you (Roman Rulers), I mean, from the attacks of those spirits of evil, which without reward or hire we (Christians) exorcise?"

Tertullian, To Scapula, Ch. 4 - "The clerk of one of the courts who was liable to be thrown upon the ground by an evil spirit, was set free from his affliction (by Christians); as was also the relative of another, and the little boy of a third. How many men of rank (to say nothing of common people) have been DELIVERED from demons, and healed of diseases?"

Minucius Felix, The Octavious of Minucius Felix (210 A.D.) - "A great many, even some of your own people, know all those things that the demons themselves confess concerning themselves, as often as they are driven by us (Christians) from bodies by the torments of our words and by the fires of our prayer." (The Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. IV, p. 190).

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