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PhilosophyGround >> Can though be it's own life form..


3/31/05 6:30 PM
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MONSTAR
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Edited: 31-Mar-05
Member Since: 12/16/2000
Posts: 1721
 

The concepts of meme's came into my life very recently and I find it fascinating.

"Examples of memes are tunes, ideas, catch-phrases, clothes fashions, ways of making pots or of building arches. Just as genes propagate themselves in the gene pool by leaping from body to body via sperms or eggs, so memes propagate themselves in the meme pool by leaping from brain to brain via a process which, in the broad sense, can be called imitation. If a scientist hears, or reads about, a good idea, he passed it on to his colleagues and students. He mentions it in his articles and his lectures. If the idea catches on, it can be said to propagate itself, spreading from brain to brain. As my colleague N.K. Humphrey neatly summed up an earlier draft of this chapter: `... memes should be regarded as living structures, not just metaphorically but technically. When you plant a fertile meme in my mind you literally parasitize my brain, turning it into a vehicle for the meme's propagation in just the way that a virus may parasitize the genetic mechanism of a host cell. And this isn't just a way of talking -- the meme for, say, "belief in life after death" is actually realized physically, millions of times over, as a structure in the nervous systems of individual men the world over.'"
4/2/05 11:14 AM
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Dogbert
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Edited: 02-Apr-05
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"Memes" are here for explaining certain social phenomena. Wether you think they are real or not doesn't matter for how good they do their job, unless you think memes can exist without some carrier.
4/2/05 11:56 AM
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MONSTAR
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Edited: 02-Apr-05
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What I wonder is that are they much different from the way that life evoled on this planet from a primordial soup of organisms.  Can they converge and evole into a collective conciousness. A bodyless intelligence. They seem to have no problem reproducing.
4/2/05 5:29 PM
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Dogbert
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Edited: 02-Apr-05 05:29 PM
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I think we all should note that the real father of memetics isn't Richard Dawkins but a other, even better selling, british author: Terry Pratchett. He called the concept narrative causality and used it to explain the evolution of stories:
Because stories are important. People think that stories are shaped by people. In fact, it’s the other way around. Stories exist independently of their players. If you know that, the knowledge is power. Stories, great flapping ribbons of space-time have been blowing and uncoiling around the universe since the beginning of time. And they have evolved. The weakest have died and the strongest have survived and they have grown fat on the retelling … stories, twisting and blowing through the darkness. And their very existence overlays a faint but insistent pattern on the chaos that is history. Stories etch grooves deep enough for people to follow in the same way that water follows certain paths down a mountainside. And every time fresh actors tread the path of the story, the groove runs deeper. This is called the theory of narrative causality and it means that a story, once started, takes a shape. It picks up all the vibrations of all the other workings of that story that have ever been. That is why history keeps on repeating all the time. So a thousand heroes have stolen fire from the gods. A thousand wolves have eaten grandmother, a thousand princesses have been kissed. A million unknowing actors have moved, unknowing, through the pathways of story. It is now impossible for the third and youngest son of any king, if he should embark on a quest which has so far claimed his older brothers, not to suceed. Stories don’t care who takes part in them. All that matters is that the story gets told, that the story repeats. Or, if you prefer to think of it like this: stories are a parasitical life form, warping lives in the service of the story itself.
4/19/05 3:18 PM
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ruthlesstoothles
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Edited: 19-Apr-05
Member Since: 09/23/2004
Posts: 194
So internal dialog in of itself is some form of parasite? or do they have to be clusters of thoughts, organized stories and ideas to become it's own life form? Very interesting idea. Total mind fuck!
4/21/05 11:32 AM
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vermonter
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Edited: 21-Apr-05
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You should cast a doubtful eye on anyone who improperly uses the term "literally." It really STICKS in my craw when people do that. "literally parasitize my brain" No! It FIGURATIVELY parasitizes the brain, perhaps, but not literally. Secondly, Dogbert said it best when he said: "Wether you think they are real or not doesn't matter for how good they do their job, unless you think memes can exist without some carrier." This is what matters most to your question. -doug-
4/22/05 7:54 PM
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ruthlesstoothles
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Edited: 22-Apr-05
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vermonter... none of that made any sence to me. what the hell is a figurative parasite? and the quote... "Wether you think they are real or not doesn't matter for how good they do their job, unless you think memes can exist without some carrier." how does that matter most or even have anything to do with my question?
4/24/05 4:27 PM
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vermonter
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Edited: 24-Apr-05
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Well.... a literal parasite would be a bug or virus or something real that is feeding off the body of another living thing. A figurative parasite would be a meme. want more, go ahead and look em up. "how does that matter most or even have anything to do with my question? " I wasn't talking to you. I was talking to Monstar. I didnt address my post to him, but it was a responce to his thread. Sorry. -doug-
4/25/05 4:35 AM
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ruthlesstoothles
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Edited: 25-Apr-05
Member Since: 09/23/2004
Posts: 201
lol
4/25/05 1:37 PM
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vermonter
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Edited: 25-Apr-05 01:38 PM
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Do you often find it funny when you think people are talking to you, but actually arent? I'll answer your question: No, internal dialogue is not a literal parasite. I take it to only be a "mind fuck" insofar as any fictional story could be classified as such. And no, organized stories can not be literal lifeforms. -doug-
4/28/05 8:58 PM
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MONSTAR
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Edited: 28-Apr-05
Member Since: 12/16/2000
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I wonder if values and ideals can be a life form. The way a cult is made, or better yet relegion is made. Could a certain way of thinking evolve to it's own sentient being. And the fact that the sentient being exists in the collection of many minds? How's that for a teaser. Perhaps God is that sentient being that exsist in many minds. In that case, god exsist, and God is nothing more than a collection of postitive values that evoloved into a intelligence or a way of thinking.
4/29/05 2:06 AM
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ruthlesstoothles
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Edited: 29-Apr-05
Member Since: 09/23/2004
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i find a lot of things funny, and i dissagree with you. i think internal dialogue is in of itself, a parasite. ever hear of the book "mind parasites" ? it's kind of goofy, but it makes you think.
4/29/05 12:57 PM
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vermonter
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Edited: 29-Apr-05
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Explain, please. I wouldnt mind hearing your theory. Typically, a literal parasite is an individual biological entity feeding off of another, without contributing anything substantial to its host. A figurative parasite would be something else that acts in a somewhat similar way. I would consider some particular brain state, although biological in nature, not an individual biological entity per se, and so fits into this class. I also don't believe that internal dialogue contributes nothing. Quite the contrary in fact. -doug-
4/30/05 2:12 PM
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ruthlesstoothles
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Edited: 30-Apr-05
Member Since: 09/23/2004
Posts: 214
what, would you say, that internal dialogue contributes to a human being? fear? doubt? prejudice? cowardice? anything that matters, we can do without talking to ourselves in our head about it. internal dialogue is mental masterbation, but it seems to be involuntary with a life of it's own. i think it is an energetic parasite, like a computer virus. its not really here, you can't touch it... but there it is... making life more complicated.

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