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Weapons UnderGround >> Bean Bag Death


4/9/05 9:11 AM
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Demitrius Barbito
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Edited: 09-Apr-05
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 551
The CSPT
 
Ga. Man Shot With Police Bean Bag Gun Dies COLUMBUS, Ga. (AP) - A man who telephoned a hot line to say he had a gun and was dreaming of killing children died after police shot him with supposedly non-lethal bean bag projectiles, officials said. Lester Zachary died Wednesday at a hospital, two days after he was shot at his home with two bean bag bullets. Zachary, 45, died of internal bleeding caused by a bullet hitting his spleen area, Muscogee County Coroner James Dunnavant said Thursday. A bean bag bullet is intended by police as a non-lethal alternative to shooting someone with a gun, Police Chief Ricky Boren said. The silver dollar-sized bean bag is compressed in a shell casing and loaded into a specialized 12-gauge shotgun. It is designed to create an impact strong enough to make suspects fall to the ground so officers can handcuff them. In this case, the coroner said, the bullet caused internal bleeding. Zachary could not be operated on because he was on blood thinners from a heart condition, Dunnavant said. Police went to Zachary's house early Monday after Zachary called the Veterans Affairs Hospital hot line. He told a nurse he was dreaming of killing children and himself and that he had a gun. The nurse called police, Boren said. When officers went to the home, Zachary told them he would kill them too, authorities said. Boren said Zachary refused to talk with them, but he eventually came out to his porch. That's when a supervisor, who was at the scene, authorized an officer to shoot Zachary in the chest using a bean bag gun from about 25 feet away. Boren said it is standard procedure to shoot the suspect in the chest if the officer is farther than 25 feet. Dunnavant confirmed Thursday that the officer was about that far away when Zachary was shot. Police said they knew of no evidence Zachary had any history of mental illness. Boren said the department will continue to use the guns until all investigations are completed. The department has used the guns nine times since 2001, and until now no one had died as a result, he said.
4/9/05 4:32 PM
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Willybone
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Edited: 09-Apr-05
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 17499
Demi, what's your take on keeping any of the various "less lethal" rounds in a home protection firearm?
4/9/05 6:48 PM
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Demitrius Barbito
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Edited: 09-Apr-05
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 552
The CSPT
It's a no go for a number of reasons. Using a firearm is lethal force. When you load it with bean bags, sting balls or pepper balls it only makes it "less lethal", not non lethal. I would stay with a reliable ammunition, one you can train with repeatedly. Likewise, if you point a weapon at someone they will defend themselves with lethal force. It does not matter that you had it loaded with sting balls and you were going to skip fire it off the ground... They won't know. All they will care about is that you have a shotgun and it's pointing at them. Another is that you can mix up the ammo. When your heart is in your throat and you've just awakend at 2:00am it may be hard to keep track of you cartridges. That's why for those who use "less lethal" ammo it's a good idea to have a dedicated weapon, usually with an orange stock. Demi www.DemiBarbito.com
4/9/05 11:41 PM
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TacticalGrappler
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Edited: 09-Apr-05
Member Since: 04/04/2003
Posts: 448
I am with Demi on this one. Remember, proper tactics when deploying less lethal is to have lethal cover - another operator with a firearm. This is impractical for home defense. As well, from the self defense perspective, if you are using a weapon you should be justified in using lethal force - the use of less lethal in police applications is not for self defense.
4/10/05 4:58 PM
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Skot
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Edited: 10-Apr-05
Member Since: 04/17/2003
Posts: 41
I also agree with Demi. I am an LEO in WV and a less lethal specialist on my shift. Having a dedicated gun that is clearly marked with NO lethal rounds near the gun is the only safe method. Our department has utilized impact rounds with good success. We teach our officers to aim for the quads, hamstrings or buttocks first. Scott Lowther www.msma.tv
4/10/05 7:46 PM
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ironmongoose
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Edited: 10-Apr-05
Member Since: 04/17/2002
Posts: 2131
Neat info. Skot, if they're aiming for those large muscles near the groinal region (which makes good sense now that you mention it) have they ever hit a guy in the nuts with a rubber bullet? Because I think the survivors would envy the dead.
4/10/05 9:52 PM
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Skot
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Edited: 10-Apr-05
Member Since: 04/17/2003
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Ironmongoose, our department only utilizes the single projectile impact round (bean bag 12 ga./sponge round 40mm.) Most rubber bullet rounds are multipile projectile. So if you fired a multi-rubber bullet round at the legs you probably would hit the dude in the nuts. But with the single projectile round like a bean bag, it is point of aim/point of impact. -Scott
4/11/05 9:13 AM
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4 Ranges
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Edited: 11-Apr-05
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Great post Demi! Very insightful and informative.
4/11/05 12:37 PM
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Willybone
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Edited: 11-Apr-05
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Demi, excellent points. Thanks!

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