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PhilosophyGround >> Philosophyground = Pathetic


4/11/05 4:31 PM
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marck
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Edited: 11-Apr-05
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 4989
 
I'm not blaming anyone here in particular. I almost never post here, so maybe I'm as guilty as anyone. But what is the point of keeping the PG? There is an average of like one post a day here. That's not enough to hit that critical number that catches and keeps quality posters. The HolyGround has more and better quality philosophy than this place. Could they be combined? There are some bright people here at MMA.TV, but it seems like the philosophyGround has failed at catching them on a regular basis. Maybe the net should be cast elsewhere (OG or HG?). If you get your panties in a bunch over this thread, then please off yourself. Someone had to say it. And besides, I have, if you'll notice, offered some suggestions.
4/12/05 11:15 AM
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FudoMyoo
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Edited: 12-Apr-05 11:21 AM
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"But what is the point of keeping the PG?"

eventhough I think that is a legitimate question for many of the subforums, I wonder what is the point of getting rid of this subforum?

"The HolyGround has more and better quality philosophy than this place. "

I disagree with that. it has much more posts, but that is about it. You have WOH who made some philosophical threads and had some discussions with Prof and myself over there, but then I also remember that the reaction from some fundie was that he thought WOH was just trying to sound clever wehen he wanted to discuss philosophical questions at HG.

"Could they be combined? "

 ime, philosophy (arguing rationally) and religious fundies doesn´t mix very well.

"Maybe the net should be cast elsewhere (OG or HG?). "

 I agree that there are some bright guys, that has studied philosophy at OG, like Braswell and TPK. and it´s perhaps sad that they don´t want to join discussions here more often. I´m sure they could ad a lot of good stuff to this place.  But then again, if someone has a specific philosophical question that they look for answers to, it´s a big risk that it just disappeards in the huge threadflow on OG. here a question stays visible for a longer time which makes it more likely it will get attention (eventually atleast).

also, I want to ad that I think we do have many guys posting here regurarly that are very knowlegdable, like vermonter, Dogbert, Socrates,  twinkletoesCT etc..

and we also have guys Cabal1 and Hakujin, but they aren´t very regular unfortunatly.

"If you get your panties in a bunch over this thread, then please off yourself."

well, I´m not sure your arguments really manage to support your extreme conclusion that Philosophyground = Pathetic, but I don´t mind your critique.

"And besides, I have, if you'll notice, offered some suggestions. "

thanks. why not also contribute more in the future, by starting threads on topics that you would like to discuss? This place becomes what we make of it.

 

4/12/05 11:36 AM
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vermonter
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Edited: 12-Apr-05
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There is a pretty good reason that Religion and Philosophy are two different schools at this university. They are very different subjects. Philosophy can be done without any theism whatsoever, even if you are a theist. Theism can be done without analytic philosophy as well, and in my experience it is very rarely done WITH analytic philosophy, which is what this forum is. My hat is off to theistic scholars who try to analyze philosophy in terms of religion, but it seems to be overwhelmingly difficult. That said, i take a look at certain threads on the holyground from time to time and it's like reading german. I can see how people who know little about both could confuse the two (seeking general life answers from science/god and mixing them up) but to me they are worlds apart. "philosophy (arguing rationally) and religious fundies doesn´t mix very well." I could not agree more. -doug-
4/12/05 12:10 PM
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marck
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Edited: 12-Apr-05 12:14 PM
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"eventhough I think that is a legitimate question for many of the subforums, I wonder what is the point of getting rid of this subforum?" To increase the quality and quantity of philosophy dicussed at MMA.TV. I'll go further into this later. "I disagree with that. it has much more posts, but that is about it." The philosophical quality of a thread with prof and WOH is better than most any thread here, IMO. Sorry:( "but then I also remember that the reaction from some fundie was that he thought WOH was just trying to sound clever wehen he wanted to discuss philosophical questions at HG." Idiots will always post on threads; that doesn't make the thread worth less if there is quality on it, esp compared to a thread that goes nowhere but is devoid of idiots. "also, I want to ad that I think we do have many guys posting here regurarly that are very knowlegdable, like vermonter, Dogbert, Socrates, twinkletoesCT etc.." Most of those guys post infrequently... "and we also have guys Cabal1 and Hakujin, but they aren´t very regular unfortunatly." If by "aren't very regular" you mean almost never, I'll agree. "thanks. why not also contribute more in the future, by starting threads on topics that you would like to discuss? This place becomes what we make of it." I realize that. Sometimes I look here and think "why bother?" But if everyone thinks that, then this is how we get the problem in the first place. I know, I'm to blame as well. "There is a pretty good reason that Religion and Philosophy are two different schools at this university. They are very different subjects." Vermometer, no offense, but I think you completely misunderstood my post. I'm not confusing religion and philosophy. I'll come back to this later. I just wanted to respond to the posts as quickly as I could.
4/12/05 12:14 PM
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marck
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Edited: 12-Apr-05 12:21 PM
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"well, I´m not sure your arguments really manage to support your extreme conclusion that Philosophyground = Pathetic, but I don´t mind your critique." Oh that. Yeah, that was sort of an attention grabber, not meant literally. Although I will say it took close to 24 hrs to get a response to such a provocative title, which is evidence that points toward the conclusion of my admitingly hyperbolic title.
4/12/05 12:29 PM
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vermonter
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Edited: 12-Apr-05 03:50 PM
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Nope, i wasn't confused at all. I suppose i should have opened with the quote: "The HolyGround has more and better quality philosophy than this place. Could they be combined?" I don't think they should be combined. Very often, people ask for exercise or nutrition advice on the OG, or UG. They get a lot more responses than they would on the S&C forum, for certain, and some of those responses may even be of high quality, and of those, some of the high quality posters might never contribute to the s&c forum. It's a similar story with the H&M forum and the S&C, and between a lot of martial arts forums too. In light of these facts, i don't beleive there is reason to combine the two. Similarly, i don't doubt that there are sometimes actual philosophical questions asked on the holyground (and no, i don't think people wanting to learn about Zen are asking philosophical questions, and i don't know where you were drawing the line, which was part of my point) and that's fine if you want a theistic perspective on philosophical questions, and maybe some of those people can do analytic philosophy as well. I simply don't see the reason why that equates to a pathetic forum. I wasn't missing your point, more picking up on one sentence and discussing it. It seems like this is your argument, please let me know if i'm mistaken: P1. The PG has a low post count. P2. Low post counts = pathetic forum (i shortened this one, it still includes your point about quality posters) P3. Pathetic forums should be deleted/merged in favor of non-pathetic forums. C. The PG should be deleted or merged with a different forum. (you suggest the HG). I have the biggest problem with P3. My last post related to the fact that their is sufficient difference to warrant this forum, but that doesn't make the post quantity high. I agree with you 100% that it is a little too slow around here, which is why i've made attempts at bringing interest. Let me know if i captured it right. -doug-
4/12/05 1:38 PM
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Dogbert
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Edited: 12-Apr-05
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I don´t think that there is much overlap between the topics discussed at the Holyground and here.Your judgement of the "philosophical quality" of threads at the holyground have IMO more to do with what your view of philosophy is. This isn´t exactly a uncontroversial question. Apart form the fact that moany of the more esoteric topics here wouldn´t be discussed without the PG, I think it is a pretty good resource. You may not get a answer fast, but I think many have learned a good deal here. Some may also prefer the gentle tone here. I usually don´t read things like "If you get your panties in a bunch over this thread" here.. ;-)
4/12/05 3:56 PM
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vermonter
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Edited: 12-Apr-05
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"Your judgement of the "philosophical quality" of threads at the holyground have IMO more to do with what your view of philosophy is." Good point. I totally missed this angle. -doug-
4/12/05 7:50 PM
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TexasThai
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Edited: 12-Apr-05
Member Since: 04/24/2002
Posts: 16956

you must have skipped over the dozen other Grounds that do worse than this one, or have you created the same thread on all the grounds with less than 386 threads?

TT

4/12/05 10:08 PM
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FudoMyoo
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Edited: 12-Apr-05
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"Oh that. Yeah, that was sort of an attention grabber, not meant literally. Although I will say it took close to 24 hrs to get a response to such a provocative title, which is evidence that points toward the conclusion of my admitingly hyperbolic title. "

so that people don´t react to trolling...ehum, I mean your "hyperbolic title" proves your point that this forum is pathetic? well, everyone is entitled to their opinion. personally I think the unnecessary use of hyperbolic titles is pathetic (nah, not really, just messing with ya ;-)

this is not the first time this complaint is voiced however; that the low activity here equals a bad forum. I guess it´s a matter of taste, and even if I wouldn´t mind more activity here, I still think that quantity doesn´t equal quality or that low quantity =bad.

I also think that many of us that posts here,  more or less knows eachothers main positions and arguments. I have already discussed alot with (for example) Dogbert about many philosophical topics, so I know what he thinks about many things. and probably he knows the same about me and my arguments.

"I know, I'm to blame as well. "

No need to feel like that imo, I don´t think we need to blame anyone. I think it´s better to ask ourselves: what do we want to discuss? and then just do it, like vermonter did a while ago.

I´m not unhappy with things as they are now, and if I feel like discussing a topic, I will. pretty simple imo.

4/13/05 4:56 PM
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DonnaTroy
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Edited: 13-Apr-05
Member Since: 09/22/2002
Posts: 4854
FM has catched the correct with "I still think that quantity doesn´t equal quality or that low quantity =bad".
4/18/05 3:37 PM
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FudoMyoo
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Edited: 18-Apr-05
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so where did you go, marck?
4/19/05 10:54 AM
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martial_shadow
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Edited: 19-Apr-05
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As a HG mod who lurks here, it would be very difficult and sticky if you guys all jumped to the HG and it was turned into a HG-PG hybrid. The two would inevitably become missed and people from both camps would be driven away leaving a small core who could talk about both in a semi-intel. fashion.
4/19/05 3:31 PM
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FudoMyoo
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Edited: 19-Apr-05
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that is also a good point
4/19/05 10:14 PM
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ChemicalSage
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Edited: 19-Apr-05
Member Since: 05/22/2002
Posts: 5087
Also, it's exam times, and the post rate is much higher in the summer.
4/26/05 4:39 AM
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FiatLux
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Edited: 26-Apr-05
Member Since: 03/12/2002
Posts: 3375
"But what is the point of keeping the PG? There is an average of like one post a day here. That's not enough to hit that critical number that catches and keeps quality posters." What is this number and why do you get to set it? There is great content here, sometime better and more helpful than actually going to class. Im a quality poster and I'll come here regardless if the forum hit your critical number or not. Not being able to keep quality posters is quite the backhanded comment (to myself and many others) from someone with the best interest of a anything in mind. "The HolyGround has more and better quality philosophy than this place. Could they be combined?" Only because its based on religion and not a wider range of topics. If you only did one thing and you didnt do it well I would be concerned. You give them credit for taking on a small field yet condem the rest of us who take on the rest of philosophy? Following your logic I could better quality replies if I asked about Thomas Hobbes in HG than here, interesting. But that would be totally wrong for obvious reasons. Religion is based on a lack of thought and fear. Not hard to understand why there in an inherent attraction there and why so many more people flock there to defend there views about truth, bullshit, and child rapists. "There are some bright people here at MMA.TV, but it seems like the philosophyGround has failed at catching them on a regular basis. Maybe the net should be cast elsewhere (OG or HG?)." If you have been reading the forum as long as your tag implies, you would be aware of a general if not egregious decrease in worth while context in all forms here. More likely than not this place has failed as a direct reflection of societies plight towards mind-numbing pop culture and away from discursive thought of any kind (much less college or graduate level philosophy topics). Its been said that preaching to the choir isnt a great example of utility, well neither is kicking them in the face.
6/28/05 8:40 PM
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Sun Wu Kung
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Edited: 28-Jun-05
Member Since: 02/21/2005
Posts: 45
I think most folks think that Philosophy and "what you believe" are the same thing. Since they aren't we need the PG imho.

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