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DantheWolfMan UnderGround >> Hostage behavior ?

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8/5/02 3:24 PM
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Varley
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Edited: 05-Aug-02
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 13
 
Tony , PDR coaches , In light of the shootings at the airlines etc , I started to wonder how one might optimize they're survivability as a hostage if one was unfortunate enough to find themselves in such a scenario . Without being too scenario-specific , lets say you are alone (without family) , in a closed environment (bank etc) when a few gunmen make their move (fire a shot , "nobody move" etc) and are too far away to engage . So I'd definately flinch ... but then fuelled by some righteous indignation and my wishlist where do I go from here ? If engaging the gunman would drastically decrease survivability then how does the flinch convert ? How do I optimize such things as : -Managing the adrenaline dump -body language -negotiations Are there general things I should be doing that might prove useful then or later such as : -observing the badguys' details and patterns -observing the banks layout etc I'll leave it at that because I'm not sure how I should behave during a hostage incident . Spearing a haymaker is one thing , but what tools do we impliment when a threat becomes a prolonged one . I know where I'll be attacked first , so fear management skills will be essential . However when a physical reply isn't our best option , how do we best prepare ourselves ; what should we be thinking/doing in those following moments...minutes.....hours ? Var
8/5/02 4:06 PM
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ironmongoose
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Edited: 05-Aug-02 04:18 PM
Member Since: 17-Apr-02
Posts: 69
Var, check out the book "Strong On Defense" by Sanford Strong. It addresses a lot of the issues you bring up, and is one of my favourite self-defense educational supplements, right up there with DeBecker and Blauer. I call them "The Three Kings". Also, I like what Blauer's "Three Golden Rules" have to say. They're generic and flexible. Review them off the "CSD:ME" and "PEP" audios. A chessmaster was once asked, "Sir, what is the best move in chess?" There is no recipe for hostage behaviour, just as there is no best move in chess. The move is only good or bad with respect to the situation. Sit tight? Run out? Tackle a gunman? Draw a tactical folder? Talk? Play the grey-man? No one method is "optimal" every time. What's more, we base our decisions on the information available to us. Prior to Sept 11, most of us would have said that the "optimal" thing to do in an airplane hijacking would often be to sit tight and read your paperback, calm your family, hey, maybe you'll get a free trip to Cuba. Then we found out hey, you might end up smushed into a building. "Less desirable." The guys in that fourth plane got new information via cell phone and it appears that they modified their strategy accordingly. GAR--goal, action, result.
8/5/02 5:12 PM
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temp152885
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Edited: 05-Aug-02 07:50 PM
Member Since: 31-Jan-02
Posts: 11
You have to be scenario specific. It is the key to properly responding. Assuming you are alone, w/o family however you have others in the bank that you have to worry about. Are you familiar with the bank and its layout? An early question should be what is your G.A.R. (Goal Action Result), that establishes your plan. Is it to survive the situation? Is it to stop the robbery? I am assuming that they are robbing the bank, because “that’s where they keep the money” correct. Well fine, let them have it. If they meant to kill everyone inside, they would have come in and lit the place up. Think about that a little further. You asked about how you would engage them. You are already engaged, you just have not engaged yet physically. Emotionally and psychologically you are in the deep stuff at this point in time. If you are asking about the physical engagement. You should consider the items that will dictate any physical attack (Proximity, awareness, aggressiveness and speed). This works both ways, whether you are on the giving or receiving end. What are your improvised weapons at hand? How many attackers are there? What is the payoff…..combat is always about the barter system, what are you willing to trade? Don’t get caught up in the SPEAR tactic. It is important that you understand the difference between the SPEAR system and the SPEAR tactic. The SPEAR tactic is not the only tool in the system. You always have tools, targets and tactics. The “scenario” you are describing has some wide parameters….moment, minutes, hours? All call for different tools and tactics. Some may be physical, some may be verbal, some may be Non violent Posture…….it all depends. The best thing to see what you would really do is to run through evolutions in a scenario specific setting and see what happens and where opportunity presents itself. Be sure to put into the scenario some other “hero” who like you, is thinking about Chuck Norrising someones ass only you guys don’t know each other is thinking about it. What the hell kind of Murphy moment is going to happen then? How about the old lady who drops to the floor from a massive stroke and the place goes nuts...….or the employee that resists and all focus in the room goes to them. If you play intensely enough with the evolutions you will get an adrenaline dump, see what happens and take notes and you will have a better sample of what would really happen and realistically what your choices are. Try and make it the most realistic fake stuff you can. Joe Mullings
8/6/02 12:36 PM
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Tony Blauer
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Edited: 06-Aug-02
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 157
Blauer Tactical Systems, Inc.
Great reply Jesse and Joe, excellent applications of the PDR Fundamentals. Valrey, there are battles and there are wars...the war is the hostage scenario, the time-line determines how many battles must be waged to win the war... Manouever, attrition, feigning fear, injury, sacrafice, distraction, feigned alliance,...alll components of stratgey within battle. I always talk about the proverbial hostage moment in my training, Ive done this since 1986, same stroy same visual same info...apparently its timeless: I ask a group of untrain peopel, their first morning of a seminar if they would be willing to be the 1st hostage, should a terrorist break into theroom and take control...they all look at me, furrowed brows (where's this going?) before anyone can speak, I share them a sobering statistic that in most serious hostage negotiations, the first hostage dies a sign of their (the terrorists) resolve....the group is quiet of course, as I ask them again, so who wants to go first? Part of the essence here is about how andwhat we visualize: failure? succes? and where to go from there... This story leads the class into many layers and phases of training, however the moral is revealed inthis installement that occured a decade later while I was training with a military unit... during this seminar, with soldier (highly trained with a special ability and directive) I told the same story, [in this case, the point of the story was about the visual and not the facts] and when I asked, "who wants to be the first hostage?..." they all raised their hands in unison! Get it!? Thses guys would love to be within arms reach of a badguy...its all perspective! And training intellegently can help create perspective. Tony
8/6/02 7:30 PM
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Varley
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Edited: 06-Aug-02 07:39 PM
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 14
Jesse and Joe , I appreciate the G.A.R. reminder ! Great visuals and examples as well . (Jesse , I'll check for that book in my local Chapters , thanx) "Part of the essence here is about how and what we visualize: failure? success? and where to go from there...//...its all perspective! And training intelligently can help create perspective. " Tony , powerful story !! Their resolve is a testiment to how one's perspective can shift with proper training . I am beginning to see how your principles tie in together , and how a solid grasp of them could get someone thru any situation . ( would that be considered a personal paradigm shift ?) Edit : The shift I am referring to is that of the men you were training . Each of them starting out with certain abilities and beliefs , and then evolving wayyy beyond those ? Thanx again , Var

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