UnderGround Forums
 

AcademicGround >> Anyone with a psych graduate degre


4/25/06 3:02 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
eabeam
2 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 25-Apr-06
Member Since: 08/28/2001
Posts: 1674
I say three things, although this is my opinion not admissions. I am a Licensed Educational Psychologist in Cali. I also supervise a staff of 25 school psychologist and speech folks. Before starting my doctorate program, I did some adjunct teaching 1. Good math and analytical skills. 2. Decent people skills - listening and writing to be exact. 3. Be sane, too many people get in the business to deal with their own crap. I wish we could use the MMPI as an admission exam.
4/28/06 7:14 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
ironmongoose
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 28-Apr-06
Member Since: 04/17/2002
Posts: 3431
I agree with eabeam, as I'm an ed psych too, but it's different for therapists, and maybe even a little different for folks who do hospital work, forensic work, I/O... A lot of us were counselors previously, but either got sick of the drama or found we could get steadier work punching out these standardized tests. One guy I worked with found himself thinking in therapy, "why don't you tell it to someone who cares?" and then realized it was time to go.
4/28/06 9:22 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
WEB
61 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 28-Apr-06
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 2753
what is the name of the class that would introduce the mmpi tests, counseling techniques or other tests??????
5/1/06 1:03 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
eabeam
2 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 01-May-06
Member Since: 08/28/2001
Posts: 1695
Any of a number of class names. Mine was "Psychdynamic Measures." However, I am not talking about proficiency in psychometrics, I am talking about ruling out the crazy students. My program was clinically based and we took most of our non-educational classes with clinical folks. I am also married to a clinical social worker. The issues are the same.
5/1/06 1:46 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
ironmongoose
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 01-May-06
Member Since: 04/17/2002
Posts: 3432
WEB, in undergrad, the course that would look at those things would probably be called "Introduction to Clinical Psychology", and is likely to be a 300-level course with Personality and Abnormal as prerequisites. To actually learn the skills well and practically, as in at the graduate level, they would usually be taught in separate classes: several different ones on counseling theory and skills, and maybe one or two that covers MMPI-2 and similar tests like MCMI.
5/2/06 9:23 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
WEB
61 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 02-May-06
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 2765
clinical psych is offered at my college. I still have to take abnormal, taking it this summer, would i be better off taking abnormal for a fall/spring semester instead of the summer?
5/3/06 3:47 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
ironmongoose
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 03-May-06
Member Since: 04/17/2002
Posts: 3436
WEB, that really depends on your lifestyle, the way courses are set up at your particular school (in terms of scheduling, prereqs, etc.) and your personal preferences. Best you ask someone right there, a more senior student or else a prof.
5/4/06 9:48 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
eabeam
2 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 04-May-06
Member Since: 08/28/2001
Posts: 1740
Do your research and talk to people in the field. When I got my Bachelor's, I was very unaware of what careers in Psychology and the career paths were really like. the year after I graduated, I was a EMT in Boston - bouncer - and waiter. I really like being a school psychologist, my wife is a therapist. Our work days are VERY different. (I make twice as much though.) California is one of the few states where non-doctoral Educational psychs can get private practice licenses. The state you want to work in makes a difference. For example, I do a lot more crisis counseling than most school psychs.
5/5/06 11:19 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
latinthunder
18 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 05-May-06
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 2332
msw-social work & ms in counseling are good degree's depending if u want to do mostly therapy
10/1/06 10:45 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Ted Bennett
221 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 01-Oct-06 10:51 AM
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 4599

Don't know anything about them personally, but I looked at their links and compared them to schools I do know.

Some observations:

1. They don't post average GRE scores. That's often fishy.

2. The financial aid possibilities are *awful* - be prepared to get massive loans.

3. The student teacher ratio is awful as well - most programs I know have s/t like 1 faculty for every 6-7 students, Alliant has s/t like 1 faculty for every 20-25. And if indeed the program requires a written dissertation, I have no idea how such a small number of faculty can review that many manuscripts without there being a terrible drop-off in quality. 

4. The San Diego school has a better student-teacher ratio (about 1 to 10), but the average entering GPA is a 3.14. That would be grounds for automatic rejection at most schools I know, given that they average about a 3.4 to 3.6 for the entering students. The really good IO schools are *very* competitive (e.g., average 3.7 GPA and 1400 GRE), so that tells me a lot right there.

Not saying you couldn't get a good job with a degree from this place, but you'd be competing against folks from higher-power programs, possibly with published articles. I truly doubt Alliant has many of those (again, the time factor is too much for faculty to advise on that).

10/4/06 1:58 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Ted Bennett
221 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 04-Oct-06
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 4614
True, and many people confuse the two, but I'm kinda curious how this pertains to the ongoing discussion ;-) I hadn't seen it mentioned as yet....
10/4/06 2:03 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
ironmongoose
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 04-Oct-06
Member Since: 04/17/2002
Posts: 3811
groundfighter, did you just wake up from a nap or something? We're not talking about psychiatrists. You're the first to mention it since the discussion on Szasz on page 2.
10/4/06 5:32 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Gortiz
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 04-Oct-06
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 5640
On a side note, I know someone in Alliant's (San Diego) Doctoral Program. He was trying to get an interview with a high profile CA inmate as part of some class project. Part of the incentive for the inmate's participation was my friend's willingness to mail the inmate naked pictures of his girlfriend (she was a ringcard girl).
10/4/06 5:59 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Ted Bennett
221 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 04-Oct-06
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 4620
LOL - the ethical problems with that are just too numerous to mention :-P
10/4/06 11:04 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Ted Bennett
221 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 04-Oct-06
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 4623

Of course a doctoral degree is more useful, no argument there.

a "professional" school in that they have practitioners teaching you how to do the work in your field, as opposed to the more research oriented approach at most universities.

Yeah, that's the standard bullshit line professional schools use ;-) Problem with it is that university-based schools teach you research *AND* how to be a practitioner. In every study I've ever seen, there are *no* differences in treatment effectiveness between doctorates from professional schools vs. university programs.....and university folks can do research, too; professional programs usually can't (with some exceptions, I'll admit)

To relate it to MMA - would a person wanting to be a pro fighter go to a school that taught grappling only? Even if they said they were the best at it? Or would they be better served going to one that teaches grappling *and* striking?  Sure, someone who is a pure grappler might conceivably do well, but don't you think their odds are better if they have a more diverse skill set?

But don't take my word for it - go to the website that tells the stats on students getting pre-doctoral internships in clinical psychology. This is a complicated and contentious issue in psychology, primarily because there are more students than there are internships (about 10 students for every 7 spots). As a result, not everyone gets one, even though they may have finished all their coursework. The more competitive schools (and by extension the stronger candidates) have higher placement ratios. Check the percentages of students at professional schools who get an internship, and compare them to the percentages of students from decent-sized universities. It's really no contest.

http://www.appic.org/match/5_2_2_match_about_statistics.html

Simple example - last year, Alliant had 63% of their clinical students placed in internships, while my own Ph.D. program at the University of Mississippi had 92% - and if you feel tempted to crack jokes about the inbred redneck morons in MS, that makes Alliant look even worse :-P

Now, of course, this is clinical, not I/O, which is what we've been discussing, but I think it's not a stretch to assume the programs are of equivalent quality once you average things out.

10/5/06 8:52 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
DustDevil
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 05-Oct-06
Member Since: 06/27/2004
Posts: 754
That's a good point, Ted. Your internship helps get you eventual licensure, so not being able to get placed equals a big crimp in your eventual professional advancement.
10/5/06 11:27 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Ted Bennett
221 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 05-Oct-06
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 4634
It depends ;-) If all you do is I/O assessment and training, then you can apply for business jobs out the wazoo. If all you do is I/O research, you can apply for university jobs out the wazoo. If you can do both, and keep in mind that doing both will *not* affect your ability to do either (i.e., doing both does not make you weaker than someone who focuses on one area, counter-intuitive as that seems), wouldn't that (A) make you a more attractive candidate due to a wider skill set, and (B) give you a wider selection of jobs to choose from?
10/6/06 4:39 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
sanguine cynic
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 06-Oct-06
Member Since: 06/13/2004
Posts: 1588
Ted, If I want to get my PhD in social psychology would you recommend getting an MA in something like experimental first as a way to get into a better school? I don't even have a minor in psychology. I was a philosophy major with a 3.2 GPA and I am guessing I can score around a 1400 on the GRE's.
10/6/06 5:05 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
ironmongoose
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 06-Oct-06
Member Since: 04/17/2002
Posts: 3816
"So are you saying that research is 50% of the job wherever you go in I/O Psych?" Much as I give props to Ted, that is exactly the problem with the grappling/MMA analogy. To me, professional schools in psych are kind of like med schools in the Caribbean. For the most part I'm sure they train people semi-adequately to practise, but since they take so many applicants (and thus your ability to get in has more to do with your ability to pay, than anything) I worry that they're trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. And unlike the medical field, you may have a hard time getting an internship/licensing afterward. Maybe. I admit I'm not familiar with the US system. If I am getting surgery, I'm definitely going to avoid the guy who graduated from Ross. I'll definitely favour a doctor from a moderate-sized provincial med school prog. That's just my idiosyncratic university snobbery, though; like Ted I have read the data that professional school graduates seem to be able to perform well on the job. Bottom line, I'd rather have the smarter guy cutting me open, than the one with a rich dad.
10/6/06 9:03 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Ted Bennett
221 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 07-Oct-06 09:01 AM
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 4637

professional schools in psych are kind of like med schools in the Caribbean

Thank you, Jesse -  it is *extremely* un-PC of me to say such a thing out loud, esp. around my colleagues who came from such places and are phenomenally sensitive about it :-) I think you can figure out my thoughts on the matter, it's just that I'm very cautious about saying it on a public message board :-)))

Ted, If I want to get my PhD in social psychology would you recommend getting an MA in something like experimental first as a way to get into a better school? I don't even have a minor in psychology. I was a philosophy major with a 3.2 GPA and I am guessing I can score around a 1400 on the GRE's.

NO!!!! I can't speak for all schools, but at mine it was actually *harder* for MA/MS folks to come into the Ph.D. program. All things being equal, a person with a 1400 GRE and 3.2 GPA will probably actually get preference above the person with a 1400 GRE and 3.2 GPA and a master's, simply because the admission folks will wonder why they did the master's first and didn't just go straight to Ph.D. Perhaps they needed to become more familiar with the material, perhaps they got bad advisement, perhaps they are dabblers who finally got serious, etc - in essence, assumptions that generally don't reflect well on you. And the faculty actually told us that they disliked having to break people of "bad habits," build over other training that might be of a different orientation, etc. They liked cleaner slates.

The major exception would be if you got a publication or two out of the MA/MS program, and you're competing against people straight out of undergrad with no pubs. 

BTW, there is a manual you can find at most major bookstores or at Amazon that tells you the average entering GRE, GPA, etc. for the vast majority of programs in psychology, both experimental and clinical. I'd spend the $15-20 to look at that and find who you like and where you might fit in best, not to mention the tuition costs and financial aid possibilities..

Also BTW, 1400 GRE is a sort of magic boundary in psychology grad school - if you can hit that or better, you *will* get in somewhere, barring major personality psychopathology or fuck-up (like the guy who asked to do a body shot off a female faculty member one year!)

10/9/06 12:43 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
eabeam
2 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 09-Oct-06
Member Since: 08/28/2001
Posts: 2092
Isn't Alliant the old California Professional School of Psychology?
10/9/06 11:26 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
eabeam
2 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 09-Oct-06
Member Since: 08/28/2001
Posts: 2095
From my understanding, and this is WOM, not substantiated... the school was on the verge of losing some of its accreditation before Alliant came in to save the day. I do not know how much things are improved. Look at the licensing body for what you want to study. (Whether it is psychboard, BBS, CCTC) Do they accept the degree? almost all of them have websites that list their approved programs. Honestly, in California, I see no reason to pay for Private School tuition for a place of questionable reputation if you can get great value and quality at a UC or Cal State, depending on degree and field. The job market in CA is such that, anyone with the minimum credentials can get work... whether you are fit for duty or not. But, is that the bar you are striving for?
10/12/06 5:45 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
ironmongoose
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 12-Oct-06
Member Since: 04/17/2002
Posts: 3820
"Thank you, Jesse - it is *extremely* un-PC of me to say such a thing out loud, esp. around my colleagues who came from such places and are phenomenally sensitive about it" Presumably, your colleagues are not reading this thread. I can say whatever I want. I work for the government now, and am in a union. Plus, I do good work and they have a shortage of people with my qualifications. ;-) Dr. Bennett is a bright guy, but sometimes he'll try so hard to couch his words in the right way, to not step on the toes of stupid people, you might miss his actual message. eabeam knows what he's talking about, I would tend to give weight to his words too.
10/12/06 6:55 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Ted Bennett
221 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 12-Oct-06
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 4671

Presumably, your colleagues are not reading this thread.

LOL - so one might think - but I remember two years ago one of my patients Googled me and found some godawful post I made back in 1997 on a Quake based website (yeah, it was a video game site, but it was a side column called 'Dear Mynx' where people wrote in embarrassing stories) dealing with a very embarassing but very funny incident that involved two chicks and me in a hot tub. He came in for his next appointment and told everyone in my clinic. I just about died :-)

10/12/06 9:46 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
eabeam
2 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 12-Oct-06
Member Since: 08/28/2001
Posts: 2106
Dr. Bennett - where do you practice? I want to give a case-in-point. I am getting my Ed.D. at UCLA. I think this is a good example of a "practitioner's degree." www.edd.gseis.ucla.edu If you look up the UCLA School of ED. It is consistently a top 5 Grad School of Education (Currently, 3rd after Harvard and Columbia.) Chances are, it is cheaper than Alliant. The mainstay of the Ed.D. is, "How is your project applicable to practice." However, our dissertation committees are comprised of professors from all-over the department and University. However, some other programs, (I will not name) the Ed.D. is "Ph.D.-light" I would trust a "practitioner's degree" from a school that offers the full milieu versus one that only offers one-type. I have interviewed some academe-oriented Ph.D.-level educational psychs that would never make it in the real-world.

Reply Post

You must log in to post a reply. Click here to login.