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AcademicGround >> Anyone with a psych graduate degre


10/12/06 11:27 PM
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Ted Bennett
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Edited: 12-Oct-06
Member Since: 01/01/2001
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I'm down in Mississippi - currently working my last few days on the brain injury and stroke units at Methodist Rehabilitation Center. I accepted a new position over at the consortium that includes the Jackson Veterans' Hospital (my referrals are supposedly 70% dementia in older vets and 30% head injuries in younger guys coming back from the Middle East)and the University of Mississippi medical school, where I'll be getting a faculty appointment in psychiatry. My first day there will be 10/30 - which is awful convenient, as my wife is scheduled to deliver our first kid by C-section on 10/20 :-P

About the practitioner's degrees and such - honestly, I wouldn't have any input on your specific points, as I've seen far more variability in Ed.D.'s than in Ph.D. vs. Psy.D. In other words, a person who says they have an Ed.D. tells me almost nothing about what they're good at, it may be academia, practice, or both - I'm just not up to speed on which specific programs teach what set(s) of skills. If they tell me they have a Psy.D., I can pretty much lay money on practice. If they say Ph.D., I can lay money on research and possibly practice as well, but since I know the focus of many clinical programs, I could distinguish that a little further if I know where they went.

I would trust a "practitioner's degree" from a school that offers the full milieu versus one that only offers one-type.

I agree fully - someone who is "just" a practitioner but who comes from a program that focuses on practice *and* research tells me that not only do they know how to practice, if nothing else they are very sophisticated consumers of scientific literature, given that they have the extensive training in research methods, and that should make them a better clinician in turn. And likewise if I wanted to hire a god academic, I would prefer to have someone who has gotten their hands dirty and done treatment in addition to writing tons of grants, proposals, etc., so they know the real-world application of what they're studying.

I have interviewed some academe-oriented Ph.D.-level educational psychs that would never make it in the real-world.

Funny, I know *plenty* of academic psychologists who are socially retarded, arrogant, flaming assholes who wouldn't last a month in a hospital or private practice - patients would never put up with the shit that students have no choice but to swallow ;-)

10/13/06 3:01 PM
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ironmongoose
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Edited: 13-Oct-06
Member Since: 04/17/2002
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Ted, That's why I use a nickname. People who really want, can click on my profile. However, it doesn't easily show up on searches.
10/13/06 5:01 PM
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Ted Bennett
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Edited: 13-Oct-06
Member Since: 01/01/2001
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Gotcha - to each their own - I found that the anonymity of posting under s/t other than my name increased my asshole personality quotient geometrically :-P
10/18/06 4:47 PM
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ironmongoose
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Edited: 18-Oct-06
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Ted, I find the same to be true. But I don't have time to explain everything I learned in grad school, years of hospital lab and prison research, and clinical practice, to arrogant idiots on the net. So being an asshole is just a little more convenient for me. EVILYOSHIDA is a case in point. Look at all the time you've spent on trying to teach psychometrics to him, whereas I just say, "here are the eight factual errors in your last post, not to mention you're a fucking idiot. Thank you, goodbye."
10/18/06 6:33 PM
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WEB
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Edited: 18-Oct-06
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Ted Bennet and ironmongoose I would like a few titles and authors of a few books: topics Criminal profiling, Personality and handwriting, and Body Language. any that you 2 have read that you would recommend? Also any good books that gets into detail and examples of personality disorders..... Thanks.
10/19/06 5:10 PM
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ironmongoose
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Edited: 19-Oct-06
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Hi, I'm working at a school, but just a couple quick comments. I never studied profiling, in fact, even most forensic psychs do not practice it. Profiling methods are useful or meaningful only in a narrow set of circumstances, mostly when there's an unknown subject who seems to be responsible for a series of violent crimes. Only very few forensic psychologists work in investigations--most work in assessment (e.g. fitness to stand trial, insanity defence, dangerousness, parole) and in prison rehabilitation (e.g. therapy). So in those circumstances, profiling doesn't have much use: the guy has been identified and is already in custody. Profiling is an investigatory technique--at least in my country, the Supreme Court has ruled that expert testimony on this issue generally shouldn't have a role in determining guilt or innocence. Most psychologists would agree with this. John Douglas is kind of the celebrity expert when it comes to profiling, I suppose. Perhaps Ted Bennett can point you to someone better, but I really don't know the area myself. The use of handwriting analysis to make inferences about personality has been discredited. Though a rich folklore has been developed around it, research has determined that handwriting features do not actually correlate with personality traits or types. Graphology IS valid for helping to determine who wrote a document (e.g. whether two documents were written by the same person) so it is has a legitimate use for forensic document examination. Body language is a good question. There's a lot of "pop" stuff on it that may or may not be accurate. But there is some solid research on it too. I don't know names off the top of my head, but I can have a look for you, and Ted can probably make suggestions as well.
10/20/06 8:08 AM
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eabeam
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Edited: 20-Oct-06
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Try the book Blink by Malcom Gladwell. Not about profiling per se, but an interesting read on a group of similar topics.
10/20/06 8:18 AM
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Ted Bennett
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Edited: 20-Oct-06
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IM is correct - all three of those topics are considered unscientific, with no major support for anything the proponents of those theories/issues like to push. Handwriting is 100% garbage, and body language is so culturally bound as to be worthless - and by that I mean local culture, what a given posture means in Louisiana might be very different from New York. At least profilers admit that what they do is unscientific, but it's the best they can do under the circumstances (e.g., interviewing all the serial killers in jail to find out why they do what they do so that patterns can be established).

Having said that, IM knows his stuff - John Douglas has probably the most entertaining books out there (non-fiction), esp. his first - "Mindhunter." The first 1/3 of the book is Douglas talking about his life history, but the rest is his career in the FBI. Fascinating stuff, though if you ever study psychology/psychiatry you'll never go near this area unless you seek training waaayyyy outside the norm. And from there, some other Douglas books (Obsession, Anatomy of Motive) which follow the same path.

(interesting trivia note - the DSM-IV, or Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, which is the closest thing to a gold standard for psychiatric diagnosis, was Douglas' inspiration to do a comparable book that described violent crimes instead of psychological disorders. It's called the Crime Classfication Manual, or CCM. It's an intersting read, esp. the sections on murders and sexual assaults.)

If you read Mindhunter and like it, and you plow through all the rest of Douglas' books and want more, just look at the names he cites in the back of the book - following Douglas' success, his colleagues like Robert Ressler and Roy Hazelwood have published a bunch of books, too. What sucks is that since Douglas was first, everyone else who came after him took pains to bring up all the political bullshit and petty personal differences they had with him and each other. Douglas at least was nice enough to gloss over all the in-fighting at the FBI; Ressler on the other hand is apparently very bitter about a lot of old grudges, and he wastes time talking about them as opposed to the cases.....

If you decide that profiling and all that stuff is just not your cup of tea and you want something with real science (though admittedly it's a field of study in its infancy,  with less than 50 years of research to its credit, and the book itself is dangerously close to pop psychology), read "Without Conscience" by Robert Hare. http://www.amazon.com/Without-Conscience-Disturbing-Psychopaths-Among/dp/1572304510/ref=pd_sxp_grid_pt_2_2/002-2975735-7168047?ie=UTF8

10/20/06 6:31 PM
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Edited: 20-Oct-06
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The Robert Hare books looks interesting, im going to check that out. just a quick question about the CCM, does he give reasons why the criminal does a certain crime? e.g. motives behind a rapist....?
10/23/06 5:36 PM
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ironmongoose
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Edited: 23-Oct-06
Member Since: 04/17/2002
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Another good guy for those people interested in forensics in general, is Monahan, who wrote about "Predicting Violent Behaviour". It used to be common for psychologists to do stuff like projective tests (Rorschach, etc.) to try to spot "violent impulses" deep in some convict's psyche. Monahan used very stringent research and clearly concluded that those are not useful for predicting violent behaviour or re-offending in general. The best predictions come from gathering a lot of data about the person's background, history, and current risk factors. That is, the best assessments of dangerousness that forensic psychologists do nowadays is largely based on stuff the sociologists, rather than psychologists, used to be interested in in the past. I admit body language stuff is very culturally bounded, but there is still interesting and useful stuff on it I think. But it sure won't be the hocus pocus mind-reading stuff that most people hope for.
10/24/06 4:32 PM
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ironmongoose
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Edited: 24-Oct-06
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I just passed my oral exam! WOOHOO! Had finished the EPPP in the spring. Now I just have to get people to sign stuff, and give the provincial college my crim check and more money (it's always about more money) and I'm registered in my home province. Robert Hare is from my NEW province (British Columbia). I don't know if he still teaches at the U these days. He makes a mint peddling workshops on his Psychopathy Checklist ("PCL"). I hear it's not that difficult, and some people call it a ripoff, but forensics guys who use the psychopathy diagnosis still all get HIS training, because it makes their testimony that much more defensible.
10/30/06 2:13 PM
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ironmongoose
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Edited: 30-Oct-06
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A little of John Monahan: http://www.law.virginia.edu/html/news/2006_spr/monahan.htm
10/30/06 6:43 PM
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eabeam
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Edited: 30-Oct-06
Member Since: 08/28/2001
Posts: 2129
Coincidentally, I just hired someone with a year left in an Alliant doctoral program.
1/7/07 3:19 AM
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Gortiz
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Edited: 07-Jan-07
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ttt for pel1300
2/1/07 10:16 AM
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rkjmd
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Edited: 01-Feb-07
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ttt
2/1/07 7:26 PM
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WEB
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ttt
2/4/07 3:02 AM
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rkjmd
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Edited: 04-Feb-07
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ttt

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