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Weapons UnderGround >> Please recommend a rifle for me


4/10/06 8:30 PM
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Alex
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Edited: 10-Apr-06
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I am considering buying the Bushmaster Varminter. It looks like an M16, but in .308 caliber. I don't know much about rifles, but want an inexpensive, all-purpose model. Any others I should consider? Thanks, Alex
4/11/06 9:52 AM
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Aaron Little
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Edited: 11-Apr-06
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What do you plan to do wih it?
4/11/06 1:01 PM
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Warmonger
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Edited: 11-Apr-06
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.308 is one hell of a varminter. Why not just get an AR-15?
4/11/06 2:53 PM
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Alex
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Edited: 11-Apr-06
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I just want an all-purpose rifle. Home protection, recreational target shooting, and hunting once in a while would be the only uses. A knowledgable friend told me that if you were only going to own one rifle, that a .308 might be the best caliber. I prefer the M-16 look over that of a standard hunting rifle.
4/11/06 4:33 PM
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krept
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Edited: 11-Apr-06
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Hahah what Warmonger said. Maybe deer are considered varmints to some ecologists :) The best all purpose rifle depends on what you intend to do with it, obviously, but here is my take on what you mention: Home protection: .308 indoors? No way. Blast would be absolutely insane. Rapid, accurate follow up shots would be tough. Recreational target shooting. .308 is more expensive, so you'll shoot less. .223 will still hit from a long, long way. Again, follow up shots will be a lot faster with a .223. There are also several different ways to convert an AR15 style rifle to .22LR, so you could plink for a long, long time. Hunting. .308 has the advantage here as some states have a minimum power requirement that the .223 does not reach. If it's a matter of survival or if its legal, however, .223 WILL kill deer. Shot placement is still paramount. You'll definitely be looked at a little oddly hunting deer with an AR type rifle. If you are going for varmints, .223 is plenty. In all honesty, it's really tough to beat the versatility of an AR... and I give this up after having chosen the AK over an AR.
4/11/06 10:03 PM
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Aaron
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Edited: 11-Apr-06
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.308 Bushmaster Varminter would be one of my first choices. not sure what you mean by inexpensive, though?
4/12/06 11:05 AM
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Alex
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Edited: 12-Apr-06
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krept, Thanks for the general explanation - that's just what I was needing. By inexpensive, I mean under $1000.
4/12/06 8:40 PM
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forsaken
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Edited: 12-Apr-06
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.308 under a thousand? Look at the JLD Enterprises PTR-91.
6/4/06 11:37 PM
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forsaken
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Edited: 04-Jun-06
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"Recreational target shooting. .308 is more expensive, so you'll shoot less" I get 1000 rounds of surplus .308 for $30 less than I pay for 1000 .223 surplus rounds.
6/5/06 3:16 PM
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Alex
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Edited: 05-Jun-06
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I'm now leaning towards a Remington 700 in stainless. It's 308 and makes a good general purpose rifle IMO. If there's better choices, let me know.
6/5/06 3:20 PM
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krept
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Edited: 05-Jun-06
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:) could be because of the war. 7.62x39 has gone up a lot in the past several years, 5.56 is on the increase as well. Could be big difference in mfg year or something nuts like "south african surplus" vs. USGI stuff too. apples to apples? More lead, copper, brass, powder, etc. = less $ is interesting. cheers
6/14/06 12:25 PM
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Dark Knight
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Edited: 14-Jun-06
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Winchester Model 94. Lever action, 30-30. More of them around than any other rifle. No matter how dirty it is it will fire. Low cost. Go to gunbroker.com to get an idea of cost of guns. Also check out springfields M1A. Many options, from police work to hunting to competition. Go here http://www.springfield-armory.com/prod-rifles.shtml Blue namer... http://www.springfield-armory.com/images/SOCOMIIb.jpg
6/15/06 2:01 AM
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shovelhook
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Edited: 15-Jun-06
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I've always thought of what would make the best all-around rifle (with combat sensibilities paramount). For me a .223 is fine. A nice compromise between .223 and .308 is a .243, which you can get in FAL and AR-10 pattern rifles(from battle carbine to target rifle models in both). Never fired one but after reading up on it's ballistics and whatnot, would love one. It's a great round. There is also the .260, and the AK calibers, plus all the new stuff for the AR-15 (.50's and 6 mm of various types, the whisper series, etc.). Overall though the .243 is a great general purpose round (I know of a man who took a black bear with one) and a lot cheaper and easier to find ammo than any of those AR-15 specific rounds. I dunno if it qualifies as a true High Power rifle cartridge, but appears to be able to hang with those that are for most purposes. Looks to me to be a great choice.
6/15/06 2:06 AM
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shovelhook
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Edited: 15-Jun-06 02:22 AM
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I just re-read your post and you said inexpensive. It would take me forever to get the 1500 or so for and AR-10 or SA-58 in .243. Remington and browning have semiautos in that cal. for under a grand. My dad hunted with the Remmy 7400 in .30-06, 18" barrel too. There are aftermarket mags that hold 10 also. And of course everyone needs a .22lr. To can find a Marlin for under a hundered. I'd go with a 10/22. Add a bull barrel, hogue stock, a good scope, some high cap mags. This is system has a lot of utility, it will be your most used firearm. The positives of a .22 are endless.
7/12/06 2:54 PM
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EntryTeam
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Edited: 12-Jul-06
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Alex, Man...save a little longer and get an M1A. Get the middle sized scout rifle. It'll do it all and then some. -Ronnie
10/27/06 11:59 PM
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shovelhook
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Edited: 28-Oct-06 12:12 AM
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Nowdays you see AR-15's where you used to see SMG's and Combat Shotguns, it fills those roles as well as an assault rifle, that's the versatility of a .223 Urban Carbine. But a battle rifle (with carbine length barrel) can be used as an AR, a sniper, a scout (the ultimate all purpose, utility rifle),big game hunting rifle; Maybe overpowered for urban use, just leave the CQB stuff to your sidearm, otherwise it will do anything you want. That and a good .22 auto and you'd be set, those two and a shorty .223 also and you'd have everything covered and something to fall back on. maybe it's my old interest in survivalism, but get plenty of spare mags and lots of ammo (lots for practice, and cache some in your closet). Those would be some of the tools it's better to have and not need. Entry Team, have you seen a Smith Arms M1A K-Gun? Awesome alternative to the SOCOM 16. They replace the gas system with that of a M-60 LMG, chop the barrel to 11.5" and weld on a Vortex flash. 16" together, with the gas tube sticking out to flush (combat shotgun front profile) When installed on a M-14 this baby goes full auto from the shoulder with zero muzzle rise or recoil, stays on target. Not sure if the company is still around or doing that package, but sounded pretty awesome to me. You wouldn't be getting the accuracy or range of an M-21 or National Match of course but for general purpose use, looks good. Again there have to be limits on ballistic performance from such as short barrel, and muzzle blast from it must make your ears bleed, but I have never heard of a .308 with such control over recoil. My Favorite configuration of any M1A/M14. The original is huge by todays standards. A big guy's rifle, hard to imagine all the 150lb. US soldiers toting them and Garands around.
11/25/06 3:06 PM
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Alex
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Edited: 25-Nov-06
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ttt for shovelhook. Seven months later and I'm still wavering between an AR-10 or a Remington 700...
12/1/06 5:49 AM
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armlok
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Edited: 01-Dec-06
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An AR-10 definitely be better for "Home Protection." I much prefer the M14 type system, but unless you spend big bucks for an LRB or custom, you'll be stuck with a M1A with crappy commercial parts. Springfield ran out of GI parts several years ago, so for what they charge I wouldn't touch one nowadays. A Tanker style 14 with GI parts and Ching Sling would be an awesome multipurpose gun, but definetly not "inexpensive." A Remmy is a good boltgun, I have a custom bluprinted 20in tactical rifle and another soon to be built so I obviouly like them. But my favorite is my custom built Commercial Mauser Pseudo-Scout hunting rifle. This type of bolt gun is a great all-arounder w/ a Ching Sling and mine has backup ghost-ring sights. Fast on target, easy to carry, accurate, etc. Factory built "Scout" rifles seem to be junk, but you could have a moderately priced on built on an old surplus Mauser with a Douglas barrel. Let me know if the Scout concept rifle interests you and I can send you a pic of mine, or just do a search for Scout rifle. One good name builder is Ted Yost. It is a Psudo-Scout because it does not adhere fully to Col. Cooper's criteria. Mine has a mid-weight 19in. Lilja barrel on a long action chambered in .270. I used my 20yo long action 30-06 hunting rifle as the "donor" for the build.
12/3/06 11:05 AM
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forsaken
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Edited: 03-Dec-06
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After putting hundreds of rounds thru it so far, I'd have to still recommend the JLD PTR-91. Mine has a 16 inch barrel and collabsible stock but the regular ones can be found under a grand. Used HK mags for it can be had for $3 a piece. Just buy alot of surplus ammo for it cuz the price keeps goin up.
1/15/07 12:26 AM
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The Detriment
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Edited: 15-Jan-07 10:39 AM
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I've been thinking of buying a rifle, too... I don't have (edit- very much) experience with firearms, so this would be my first I'd actually own. I'd like an all-purpose "survival rifle," in case something catastrophic goes down where I would need to defend myself, my family and my possessions. I was thinking of a Ruger 10/22. Easy to shoot, cheap, dependable, and ammo is cheap and plentiful. It doesn't have stopping power, but it's enough to keep heads down. And I could keep a LOT of ammo on me if I needed to. I was also considering a Remington 7400 or 700 series... Much more stopping power, but I'm not sure how that would work as a first rifle. I have experience shooting shotguns and 9mm pistols, but that's it.
1/15/07 9:19 AM
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Dark Knight
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Edited: 15-Jan-07
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The remmington in 30-06 is a great choice. The 30-06 is considered one of the greatest rounds. Will take down everything on this continent, not as overpowering as a 300 win mag. The 5.56 is another great all around round. It will take down deer, small animals and great for target. Those would be my two first choices. In handguns, its a big question. Iown wo 1911's in 45, a Glock in .40, a 357, 44, 380, TC Contender in .222, Ruger .22. As an overall gun I would choose the 357 revolver. Can hunt with it, self defense, can run run 38's through it.
1/15/07 5:03 PM
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armlok
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Edited: 15-Jan-07
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While the '06 is indeed a great round, and the 700 is usually a good gun (ugh on th the 7400), I'd recommend a basic AR15 type platform. Nothing fancy, just a basic A2 with a 16in barrel and a bunch of mags.It's light, low recoil, easy to get spare parts, and easy to learn/get instruction for. If you were going with a bolt gun, then I'd recommend a "Scout" (.308) like I mentioned in my earlier post. Very handy and fast on target. The Styer IMHO isn't worth what it sells for and I've never handled the Savage model so you might want to research that one. It would be best to have one built out of an old Mauser action and don't forget to get backup sight or ghost rings. Another option is a Remmington model 7 with a fixed lowpower scope, you're not shooting target/groups, so you don't need high magnification or heavy barrel, etc. IIRC Ruger makes a rifle similar to Remmys model 7. I'd say get a 10/22 and a bunch of mags you should be fine for headshots on zombies and killing cats, dogs,tree rats, etc for the stew pot. But you nedd a major power rifle, either a scout, model 7 or basic AR. Since you have some familiarity with pistols, make sure you have one. Glock is fairly robust and easy to manipulate, maitain, 9mm is your best bet, itis easy to get ammo, etc. I prefer a .45 1911, but it has a much steeper training curve in comparison. Shotguns are great to have around the house, but not so when shaking and moving under persuit by zombies; the ammo is heavy/bulky.
1/16/07 11:17 AM
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krept
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Edited: 16-Jan-07
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all purpose "Survival" style rifle - AR. I prefer the Kalashnikov platform, but in this case you'll benefit with the AR because it'll be accurate to the distance you need it, 5.56 has hunting ammo for game or ball that works fine on defense... but the big reason that it trumps many others is that you can buy a .22LR sleeve OR upper and have 10/22 capability. Lots of inexpensive spare parts you can add too - something that's also important SHTF. Glock is also similar in this regard... a .22LR conversion unit is available for plinking/training, suppressable if you just have to kill that warlord ;). spare parts = cheap and largely unlike the 1911, they drop in without fitting. Shotguns, .30-06, .308 are great but make big booms and are relatively slow for follow up. Adding bolt action compounds this. Heavier more expensive ammo, limited capability. As they say, different tools/different jobs these have uses where they really shine but IMO versatility is limited as compared to the AR platform when fast, accurate fire MAY be warranted in conjunction with capacity. A simple 5.56 center of mass has very low recoil and as you saw in DC "sniper" case 1 bullet could definitely make someone not-okay. Aren't Camp Perry longrange matches almost dominated by ARs? Something else to consider is for "survival" you might not need a high powered rifle to the heart to get game. A lot of poachers effectively use .22LR because of the largely decreased report and the animal suffers but they still bag it. just some food for thought. You can definitely make a lot worse choices than the weapons I or the people above mentioned and even with a single shot 20ga or .22LR people can thrive so long as they operate within the limitations of their platform. As we saw in New Orleans, unfortunately, other people can be your worst enemy and for that reason self defense should be considered IMO. food for thought.
2/4/07 10:54 AM
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The Detriment
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Edited: 04-Feb-07
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I've heard there are reliability issues with the AR. Have these largely been cleared up? Also, what armories manufacture the highest-quality ARs? I know Colt is supposed to be the standard, but could I go with Bushmaster, Armalite or another company, which may be less money? Thanks for the help, guys.
2/5/07 11:53 AM
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krept
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Edited: 05-Feb-07
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two major issues related to ARs are the direct gas blowback action and the magazines. For the former, the gas behind the escaping bullet is channeled directly back to actuate the bolt which allows the next round to feed. This means that dirty air (lead fouling) is introduced into the area where the cartridges feed, causing more crap buildup relative to say an AK system where the gas blows back against a piston instead. My understanding is that on a normal AR (non-super tight match grade, properly maintained and lubricated, etc) malfunctions related to the direct blowback aren't experiences for hundreds if not thousands of rounds. Fine dust can also increase fouling. AR magazines are supposed to be disposable, but people try to run them when they are dented, feedlips bent, follower screwed up, undersprung, overloaded, etc. Usually in all semi autos/autos (including pistols) the magazines are the weak point. Within the last... five? years or so, several manufacturers have introduced piston driven uppers into the marketplace. This essentially takes care of issues related to the action. I'd definitely get one of these "just because"... I prefer that type of action. I'd be more than okay with a standard upper, however, as I'll never exchange enough rounds for that to matter. As to the magazines, quality ones should be good to go and if they start choking and respringing doesn't solve them, then they get chucked. AK magazines are more robust and I haven't had a problem with any of the ten I have. Former delta member and highly respected gunsmith Larry Vickers said it's a good idea to download the 30rd magazines by two cartridges as he says that's what they are really designed for... he definitely knows his stuff and finished up working with HK on their 416 project: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HK416 (drool) As a definitive solution to the magazine issue, HK has made a steel version that gets high reviews. I last saw them locally several years ago to the tune of $55/ea. (ouch) and I've heard that they are even more now.

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