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Weapons UnderGround >> Handgun dilemma


4/24/06 4:38 PM
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Alex
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Edited: 24-Apr-06
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 932
 
If you're really serious about self-defense, you carry a gun. But I've heard some say that if you're carrying a gun, you don't ever fight hand-to-hand b/c of the danger that you lose possession of the gun. Therefore, if you get into a self-defense situation and you are armed, you are required to draw the gun. And if the attacker attacks anyway, you are forced to shoot in the torso, not in the leg. If you shoot in the leg, I am told, it will be taken as a sign that the attack wasn't life-threatening, and a legal battle could ensue. So it seems to me that if you carry a gun and are attacked, you have to shoot to kill. If you choose to go empty-handed, you are putting yourself in great risk if the attacker is armed. Is this correct?
4/24/06 6:11 PM
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Marc_Scott
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Edited: 24-Apr-06
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 2144
Russian Judo
Short answer...no it's not correct. Just because you are in a physical altercation it is not a lethal force situation. You have to get some training that will help you to evaluate just what sort of situation justifies the drawing and using of a gun, because you should only draw it if you intend to use it. If you do carry a handgun you had best train weapon retention, unarmed techniques while acrrying, etc.
4/24/06 11:33 PM
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psychoslasher
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Edited: 24-Apr-06
Member Since: 04/08/2004
Posts: 592
Yeah, shooting someone anywhere is considered lethal force. Even if I draw a knife and cut someone on the arm, I'm still using lethal force. Even a shot in the leg can be fatal.
4/26/06 2:16 PM
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krept
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Edited: 26-Apr-06
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 4472
just to add to the above posts... when you carry a handgun or anything that can be lethal for that matter, it behooves you to take every step possible to avoid a confrontation. The tricky part would be if there is a guy who is physically inferior to you and who a "reasonable person" would consider to be unarmed. A drunk teenager with his shirt off or something that just won't leave you alone. Involving the police is a great first step and if something does happen, 911 would record your repeated commands for them to back off, stop, etc. If you are out walking your kid or have a handicapped wife or something, clearly you aren't going to be able to retreat as fast... all those things come into play hopefully before the issue of weapon retention does... and retention is critical to train. when even to put your hand on your handgun, knife, etc. before initiating a draw is a big decision in itself. a lot of this should be covered in a good CCW class. cheers
4/27/06 9:20 AM
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Demitrius Barbito
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Edited: 27-Apr-06 09:20 AM
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 771
The CSPT
You are never required to aim for torso/leg etc. As if someone could aim for alternate targets in a lethal force situation. One shot out of a gun is lethal force no matter where the round ends up. If it's time to shoot you do so until they do not need to be shot anymore. Once you pull out the gun it is NOW a lethal force encounter even if it wasn't before and the other person is now able to claim a lethal force encounter against you. The gun doesn't come into play unless you intend to use it. It's like squeezing out toothpaste, once it's out it's impossible to get back in as if nothing happened. Expect a pyscho legal battle under all circunstances.
4/27/06 9:22 AM
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Demitrius Barbito
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Edited: 27-Apr-06
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 772
The CSPT
Handgun/CCW requires as much training as BJJ. Most never get more than half a day of "state approved nonsense".
4/28/06 9:36 PM
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psychoslasher
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Edited: 28-Apr-06
Member Since: 04/08/2004
Posts: 609
Demi could never be more correct!
5/8/06 10:52 AM
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Alex
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Edited: 08-May-06
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 1013
?The gun doesn't come into play unless you intend to use it. It's like squeezing out toothpaste, once it's out it's impossible to get back in as if nothing happened.? But if the situation de-escalates after you pull out the gun, you don?t shoot, right? Otherwise it sounds similar to the samurai tradition where if a sword is drawn, it must draw blood before going back into the sheath. I think the bullets themselves are like the toothpaste, once they are let out they certainly can't be put back in, but I'm not sure if the gun is like toothpaste.
5/8/06 8:42 PM
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psychoslasher
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Edited: 08-May-06
Member Since: 04/08/2004
Posts: 646
By law, if your gun is drawn and pointed at the assailant, it's a deadly force situation. Until you find yourself in such a situation, the gun is not to be drawn. You can open your jacket or whatever and place your hand on the gun but as soon as it leaves the holster; things have hit another level. The gun stays in the holster until it has to be used. If it comes out and you point it at the person, it's a deadly force situation. If you think things are gonna get bad, open your jacket and put your hand on your weapon but to be safe, keep it in the holster until then. Laws can vary in different areas.

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