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Roy Harris >> cross training question?


6/8/06 8:41 AM
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robograppler
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Edited: 08-Jun-06
Member Since: 05/13/2006
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Roy, I have been training in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu/submission wrestling for a couple of years now and eventually want to compete in mma. Do you think it is better to first master a certian style like grappling before crossing over to striking arts. Or, do you feel it's best to cross train from the get go. tanks
6/8/06 5:18 PM
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Roy Harris
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Edited: 08-Jun-06
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I think a person can cross train right from the beginning. However, it will be important for you to focus exclusively on the fundamentals (movements and techniques) of each aspect of the game. For example, while boxing has many punches, only the jab and the cross need be developed at first. There is no need to develop the "harder to master" punches like the hook, uppercut and the overhand. The same applies with kicking, clinchwork and grappling. In short, there's little need for a beginner to work on more than ten or twelve techniques and four to five gross movements. Why? Because these ten to twelve techniques and four to five gross movements will lay the foundation of their game. Only after several years (five or more) of hard work, discipline, dedication AND having been pushed by an experienced coach should a student begin the process of personalization, adaptation and customization! Roy Harris
6/8/06 6:24 PM
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DarrylDragon
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Edited: 08-Jun-06
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Then, I guess the next logical question would be what are the 'essentials' of the other ranges you mentioned? I would say in kicking, the simple front kick and maybe the rear Thai In the clinch, maybe pummeling and the plum? Grappling, basic escapes and holding the control positions? What do you think, sirs? :-) BTW, thank you for this forum. BJJ101 changed my life! L
6/8/06 9:22 PM
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Adam LaClair
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Edited: 08-Jun-06
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I'd love to hear your perspective on that last question (important fundamentals of the other ranges) myself, Roy.

Adam

6/9/06 1:37 AM
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Roy Harris
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Edited: 09-Jun-06
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I have a few important questions for all of you: Have you diligently practiced your fundamentals on the ground? When I use the word "diligently", I am referring to having spent a bare minimum of 100 hours practicing JUST the fundamentals. Let me give you some ideas on what I mean by diligently practicing your fundamentals. Below are a list of questions for you. The answers you give will provide you with a framework to determine how diligently you have practiced your fundamentals. Here they are: When you bridge, do you bridge on centerline or do you purposely lean to one side? If you stay in centerline, why do you do this? If you lean to one side, why do you do this? Do you favor one side when you bridge or can you perform it equally on both sides? If you favor one side, do you have plans to develop the other side? What's the highest number of repetitions you have done with your bridges? What's the highest number of sets you have done with your bridges? What's the longest period of time you have trained JUST your bridge? 30 minutes? 60 minutes? Two hours? What's the longest period of time you have held your bridge (before your backside went into spasm)? Who is the heaviest person you have had mounted on top of you as you have rep'd out your bridges? When was the last time you bridged for 15 to 20 minutes without resting or taking a break? What have you learned from all of these experiences? What subtle details have you observed about the bridge? Before I write any more, I'd like to read your responses to ALL of the above questions. Roy Harris
6/9/06 4:02 PM
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DarrylDragon
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Edited: 09-Jun-06
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Okay, I've got the idea. I know what you're trying to show me. What are some questions about the other ranges though? I'm trying to get some training tips and I like your perspective. In the meantime... *grabs heavy bag in lieu of training partner. Lies under heavy bag. Starts bridging. *
6/13/06 5:06 PM
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m.g
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Edited: 13-Jun-06 05:14 PM
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Roy, I am glad you said what you've said in your posts. I've been thinking about this lately and have come to many interesting conclusions. Let me start by saying that I believe in a "natural progression". And I believe people will progress naturally if they follow the natural order of things. The natural order is: - easy to hard. - simply to complex - basic to advance - general to specific I also realize that in order to progress to the next level or step one has to first master the previous level. This is natural. One crawls before they walk and walk before they run. I also believe that the next level or step seems to always contain something from the previous level or step, which is why it is important to master level one before moving onto level two. Level two is always easier when level one is mastered. Level two is always harder when level one is not mastered. Anyway let me answer your question. I can't answer your questions in regards to bridging but I can answer it in regards to a fundamental move like the straight armbar from the guard. Here are the questions and answers: - What's the highest number of repetitions you have done? 500 reps (250 on each side). - What's the highest number of sets you have done? 10 sets (of 25). - What's the longest period of time you have trained JUST your straight armbar from the guard? 30 minutes? 60 minutes? Two hours? One hour non-stop. - Who is the heaviest person you have had mounted on top of you as you have rep'd out your straight armbar from the guard? 300lbs. He is currently a prison guard. But was a former powerlifter. - When was the last time you straight armbarred from the guard for 15 to 20 minutes without resting or taking a break? Last week. - What have you learned from all of these experiences? Focus is important. It is important that I establish specific goals before I begin my practice session. I also need to make sure the practice session is structured and organized. If it is NOT structured and organized then there is a tendency for me to lose concentration and focus and drift of into randominess (I know it isn't a word but it best describes what I mean). I also learned that if I bring my legs forward towards me (bring my thighs to my chest while at the same time lift my hips off the ground) it is easy to pivot my body and form a "T" with the opponent. I learned the leg that is in the armpit of the opponent is important for controlling the opponent. I also learned that it is better to leave your legs un-crossed when your in the final position because you have better leverage and control.
6/14/06 8:06 AM
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jonpall
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Edited: 14-Jun-06
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I'd probably get very impressive numbers out of those questions if only I had remembered to count while I was doing it.
6/14/06 2:13 PM
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Roy Harris
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Edited: 14-Jun-06
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m.g., Very cool. Progression does occur with everyone, but it is not "natural" with everyone. Some students are creative, while others are more cerebral. Both have their drawbacks and benefits! While the natural process is from easy to hard, I have seen students all over the world take "easy" to be below them and "hard" to be a challenge for them. For example, I have taught numerous classes where there are white, blue, purple and brown belts in attendance. I'll teach an extremely basic technique, but show more details about it than I have in the past. While the white belts will think it is cool, the higher belts will some times roll their eyes, as though to say, I know this information (even if I have never taught it before). Then, when I go to show the purple and brown belts some more difficult (hard/complex/advanced) techniques, some of the white belts will always have to watch and see what it is that I am teaching to the higher belts. And, some of them will immediately stop practicing the basic technique I had just shown them two minutes ago and will see if they can perform the techniques I just taught to the purple and brown belts. Then, when they have difficult performing the "hard/complex/ advanced" technique, they will ask me to teach them how to do it (as though they had already mastered the basic technique they had just learned). So, while I understand what you mean about the natural progression from easy to hard, I have found that SOME students think they are above "easy" and want to go right for the hard/complex/advanced stuff. (NOTE: I have also observed this on this forum as well.) And from a teaching standpoint, this is very frustrating. You are right about gaining a certain level of proficiency before moving on to higher levels. However, here is one piece of information that you don't hear from many people that helps to understand the process: "The advanced techniques, training methods and tactics ALWAYS leads back to the basics!" So, "mastering" of the basics means more than just mastery of the basics. It means, "Learning the basics, progressing through them and then returning to them in the end!" You can quote me on this one if you'd like : ) Regarding your answers: Thanks for sharing your training with me. You are the first and the only person to do it on this thread! I am impressed! One comment on your training: You wrote, "Focus is important. It is important that I establish specific goals before I begin my practice session. I also need to make sure the practice session is structured and organized. If it is NOT structured and organized then there is a tendency for me to lose concentration and focus and drift of into randominess (I know it isn't a word but it best describes what I mean)." This is SO VERY TRUE!!! All too often, students go into "entertainment" mode when they train. And while this does bring a lot of enjoyment to the training, it rarely accomplishes anything skill-wise (because gaining a skill requires dedicated focus, concentration and determination - all of which are boring and un-entertaining). So, congratulations on bringing discipline to the table! For discipline is one of the most important ingredients (not to mention "An absolute requirement) in developing a skill. Roy Harris
6/14/06 3:10 PM
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m.g
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Edited: 14-Jun-06 05:15 PM
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Roy, Since you mentioned disciple here is another thing I've learned or come to realize recently. I think activities such as Bjj (yes, I believe bjj essentially is a type of activity like basketball, playing an instrument and skiing) are not only a means and opportunity to develop and express certain physical qualities/attributes but also a means and opportunity to develop other important qualities like disciple, committment, persistance and perservance. I believe Bjj requires disciple BUT it also develops disciple. This is why I have a problem with people whose sole mission is to make everything in bjj fun, simple and easy. I personally believe that somethings are not meant to be easy, simple or fun to do. I think somethings are meant to be difficult to do because the doing of them requires and develops important qualities like disciple and persistance. People have to learn to persist through difficult times and things.
6/14/06 3:54 PM
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swiftnhbfighter
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Edited: 14-Jun-06
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 1065
ttt for an awesome and informative thread~

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