UnderGround Forums
 

Weapons UnderGround >> AK-47 in US military


7/21/06 11:21 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
NinjaNate
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 21-Jul-06
Member Since: 04/24/2002
Posts: 1410
 
Do you think the US would ever equip it's soldiers with AK-47s? Is the AK inferior to what they are using now?
7/22/06 10:38 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
psychoslasher
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 22-Jul-06
Member Since: 04/08/2004
Posts: 902
Many people claim that the AK lacks the accuracy of other weapons. I have found that this is true but for ranges that most firefights occur, it's plenty accurate enough. You can also change magazines much quicker with the AR's than the AK's. I also think that the US military likes the lighter recoil of the 223 as opposed to the 7.62x39 the AK uses. One thing about the AK that I love is how durable it is. You can bury one the mud and sand but it will still shoot like normal when pulled out. It's very durable. I don't see the standard weapon ever changing unless we get taken over by another country or something.
7/23/06 2:05 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Dark Knight
307 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 23-Jul-06
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 5231
The Soviets, now russians changed to the AK-74. The round is very close to the 556 that we run through the M-16.
7/24/06 1:30 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
krept
69 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 24-Jul-06
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 4506
i believe that the AK74 is soon going to be replaced by the AN-94. Interestingly, because it is a more complex design. The AK is not an inherently innacurate design (e.g. because of "sloppy tolerances") it is more a product of the relatively bad trigger and poor sights. HK has already improved on the AR - one, by making much stronger magazines, a significant weak point in any magazine fed weapon. Secondly, they redesigned the gas operating system using a piston instead of the current direct blowback mechanism. The US will almost certainly switch to the HK upper long before going to the AK platform. There was also some talk about replacing the 5.56mm cartridge with some @ 6.8mms that can be still used in the existing platform, save a different upper. That said, some SOCOM personnel have favored the AK platform to the AR in Afghanistan and Iraq. Almost universally, it is the AK-47 because of the plentiful ammunition supply (ironically, now drying up because of the conflicts). Interestingly, After Action Reports (AARs) from both areas have said that the 7.62x39mm bullets fired from the AK-47 are superior in the conflicts because of the greater momentum allowing for more "knockdown" as well as penetration - a good split between the 5.56x45 and 7.62x51
7/24/06 1:36 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
krept
69 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 24-Jul-06
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 4507
The "problem" with the currently fielded 5.56x45 bullets are that they lack the fragmentation of the earlier ones. I'm not sure if this is because of the tungsten/steel core or perhaps a different cannelure (crimp) which was the area where the bullet would separate when it yawed. The 5.45x39, the replacement cartridge to the AK-47's 7.62x39, has an airpocket underneath the nose which causes the bullet to yaw (turn 90 degrees) very very fast, destabilizing quickly in media denser than air. The additional benefit of the 5.45 over the 5.56 is that the bullet is "longer" or has a higher sectional density, meaning that it will not only penetrate hard cover/armor better but it will also destroy more tissue when yawing. The Afghans called it the "poison bullet" for good reason, I suppose, when the Russians introduced the AK74 during their fiasco over there. What is very interesting is the new Chinese cartridge. I think they took the 5.45 and made the overall cartridge length longer and have a slightly heavier bullet. Tests (including executions) have shown it to be significantly superior to both what we and Russia have. As an aside, some Spetsnaz guys fighting in Chechnya have returned to the AK-47 again, because they feel it offers superior cover penetration - something that definitely is a factor in urban operations. cheers
7/28/06 3:48 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Ninja Vanish!
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 28-Jul-06
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 147
I thought that all NATO countries had to be uniform. So if the US wanted to switch to a 7.62 standard, all of NATO would have to change as well?
9/5/06 3:47 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
HULC
52 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 05-Sep-06
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 1538
I may be out of my depth here, but i've always felt that the switch to 5.56 standard was driven, to a great extent, by the latent pacifism of many of those in power. Ie, it looks better to have a bullet designed to injure than to kill.
9/12/06 8:54 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Zero Horizon
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 12-Sep-06
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 45382
"The "problem" with the currently fielded 5.56x45 bullets are that they lack the fragmentation of the earlier ones. I'm not sure if this is because of the tungsten/steel core or perhaps a different cannelure (crimp) which was the area where the bullet would separate when it yawed." Most blame it on the lack of velocity generated by the shorter barrels being used now, especially with the lighter rounds. 75- and 77-grain rounds have proven far more effective with the shorter barrels, significantly increasing fragmentation percentages at higher distances.
9/23/06 6:55 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
WinkyTickleBear
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 23-Sep-06
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 465
HULC, AFAIK, the switch to 5.56 (and, incidentally, the development of the M203 underbarrel grenade launcher, and the concept of the three-round burst limiter) was largely driven by the Project SALVO and the SPIW project. The ultimate idea was for soldiers to maximize the number of effective shots per unit of ammunition weight carried by soldiers; while the flechette thing didn't work out, the idea of a light, high-velocity round fired in volume stuck around, as did the concept of marrying a grenade launcher to a point-defense weapon. What's really interesting about all this is that a lot of 3rd-world armies (including insurgent groups in Chechnya) are starting to treat the RPG-7 as their primary weapon, fielding fire teams consisting of three RPG gunners and one rifleman for close defense.
12/8/06 4:35 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
saint39
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 08-Dec-06
Member Since: 09/23/2000
Posts: 959
The AR/M16/M4 is being replaced by the FN SCAR(not sure what the acronym stands for). The SCAR Light comes in 5.56(should have upgraded IMO since they were developing a new rifle anyway. The SCAR Heavy comes in 7.62 x 51, using what looks like(or similar to) old M14 or FAL typoe 20-rd mags. The fielding for these rifles will take some time. I think some Army units are already putting some in service, but don't know.
12/12/06 2:46 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
krept
69 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 12-Dec-06
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 4544
Zero, good to see you man. My understanding is that even where the velocity is above the majic threshold (2750FPS?) there still isn't nearly as much fragmentation with the currently fielded bullets. could be wrong. @70gr sounds kind of heavy? IIRC the switch to 5.56 was as WTB said.
12/12/06 6:19 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
pumpkinpuss
12 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 12-Dec-06
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 2197
"I may be out of my depth here, but i've always felt that the switch to 5.56 standard was driven, to a great extent, by the latent pacifism of many of those in power. Ie, it looks better to have a bullet designed to injure than to kill." I thought that motivation was more along the lines of taking out three guys if you injure someone (the guy and maybe two who have to tend to him or carry him) instead of just the one you kill. I also thought there was supposed to be a psych component to wounding a guy, so you have someone screaming out, thus demoralizing his comrades. I know people would be distracted by me if I were shot. "they SHOT ME IN THE ASS. Someone help me, Jesus I am dying here. Christ my ass hurts." I really am a pussy in comparison to my granduncles who fought in WW2.
4/19/07 2:35 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Ted Bennett
205 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 19-Apr-07
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 6202

I know people would be distracted by me if I were shot.

LOL - that reminds me of Eddie Murphy's little skit where he talked about people getting shot in "Delirious."

IIRC, it went something like "Guys get shot in the movies, and it's like 'argh.....umf......go on without me!!!"

"In real life, the bullet hits your ass, and it's 'HOWAAAAAAAOOOWWWW, Jesus, I'm shot, FUCK, SHIT!!!! YOU BETTER NOT LEAVE ME, YOU MOTHERFUCKERS!!!!!' "

4/25/07 2:29 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Ron Mexico
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 25-Apr-07
Member Since: 04/07/2005
Posts: 1475
Theory has been correctly assessed by others on this thread. The main thing: soldiers can carry more bullets. More shots = more intimidated enemies who keep their heads down and therefore aren't shooting back at you. Wounding is also better than killing, given a short timescale conflict. You take the bad guy out of commission, plus all the people taking care of him, plus all the people making medicine for him, plus you clog up the transportation infrastructure transporting him to medical care, etc. If the war lasts much much longer than the time needed to heal, then killing is probably more efficient in the long run.
4/30/07 10:09 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
BEEF & CHEESE
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 30-Apr-07
Member Since: 09/29/2002
Posts: 11970
"HK has already improved on the AR - one, by making much stronger magazines, a significant weak point in any magazine fed weapon. Secondly, they redesigned the gas operating system using a piston instead of the current direct blowback mechanism." -I believe the HK is an evolution of the AR-18 that had a piston in the gas system.
5/1/07 8:50 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Boyscout
2 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 01-May-07
Member Since: 10/15/2002
Posts: 350
"If the war lasts much much longer than the time needed to heal, then killing is probably more efficient in the long run." Love the 7.62 but have had mixed results with the 5.56. .. "The SCAR Heavy comes in 7.62 x 51, using what looks like(or similar to) old M14 or FAL typoe 20-rd mags. The fielding for these rifles will take some time. I think some Army units are already putting some in service, but don't know." I hear its been used in the Gan and it been performing well.
5/7/07 5:20 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Kai Tremeche
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 07-May-07
Member Since: 07/06/2000
Posts: 16394
Which 7.62? The 39 or the 51? Yeah, as they've moved to the carbines, some of the velocity has been lost and the original round is a bit different now. Personally, I'd rather see them move to the .25 grendel than the 6.5 PPC, but yeah... That intermediary point would be nice...
10/3/07 10:24 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
swmnbjjer1
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 03-Oct-07
Member Since: 09/23/2007
Posts: 42
in the navy MA, we will never have the AK type weapon but there is heavy take about taking the gas piston system and using it, HK and someother companies have this system already in use. this helps with carbon build up and not having to clean these damn things every shot!!!

Reply Post

You must log in to post a reply. Click here to login.