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DantheWolfMan UnderGround >> Appelgate/Blauer comparison

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3/7/02 8:32 AM
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Extreme Justice
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Edited: 07-Mar-02
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Nicely put Tony. Sean
3/7/02 8:32 AM
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martial_shadow
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Edited: 07-Mar-02
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I agree with what you said however, one should point out that in general, when training military and police, the amount of verbal and psychological training needed for H2H combat is less since they are unlikely to be in that range of combat anyway and are unlikely to talk to their attacker in that range. H2H in military training is to instil warrior ethos and give them a last resort should something happen. Tony's material (and correct me if I'm wrong) is as far as I know primarily for civilians (yes he has LEO and military stuff as well). With civilains in mind, the psychological nature of the combat arena changes due to who, what, when and how you will be fighting. Both systems attempt to give their practionners the same thing but for slightly different pruposes and they are designed for different audiences.

MS

3/7/02 8:32 AM
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TKDFighter
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Edited: 07-Mar-02
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Actually alot of Tony's work is geared towards those of us in the miltary/LEO fields. Thre is alot of the material that is transferable between the fields, but we (military/LEO) face unique threats that Tony helps us deal with in more nontraditional ways.

To say that we don't use verbal defuse and NVPs is off the mark in today's times. As we are given the role of Peacekeeper more and more often, we have to be able to handle situations with the smallest amounts of force possible. We can't just handle a situation with lethal force anymore. By training in combative programs we are given an extra set of tools that allow us to solve problems without having to relie on our firearms. It might range from verbal defusing an arguement in a village to subdueing the driver of a vehicle that has some form of contraband on board. So, you see it is more than all this "warrior ethos" crap I keep hearing about. Its about the survival of my buddies to my left and my right.

Chris

3/7/02 8:32 AM
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Ausgepicht
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Edited: 07-Mar-02
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These comparison threads really are too much. Aus
3/7/02 8:32 AM
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Tony Blauer
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Edited: 07-Mar-02
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Blauer Tactical Systems, Inc.
Thanks T. Torres. COming from an experienced police officer and skilled martial artist, I appreciate your opinion. :-) Aus, was your comment referencing the posting of the comparison or that others feel the need to make the comparisons?? Tony
3/7/02 8:32 AM
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MTripp
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Edited: 07-Mar-02
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There is a letter in this month's Black Belt that address the issue of Fairbairn Combatives as well. I think the point people tend to miss is that Fairbairn was called home right after Dunkirk and the British expected a German invasion very soon. Fairbairn created a system that could be learned in hours; and people would remember it for years; that is an oustanding achievement. However, to expect a person who has been trained for hours to meet the level of a person who has trained for months or years is just foolish. Moreover, the idea of padded armor did not exist back then. Kano had to teach the striking techniques of Judo in the katas as they were too dangerous to prastice in randori. Were he around today to see what Tony has come up with; I am sure he would have created something different. Simply put; we owe a HUGE debt to Henry Ford for creating the car and related fields; but no one wants to drive a model T today; we have grown past that. Same can be said in the field of combatives.
3/7/02 8:32 AM
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ironmongoose
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Edited: 07-Mar-02
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Great post, MTripp. I keep saying, every generation stands on the shoulders of those before, and sees further. (I think Newton said something like that, and then Bronfenbrenner had a catchier-sounding one, and then I changed it a bit.) :) I think I might kind of understand Aus's discomfort. Comparison threads can be easily misread, especially when they're in a "specialist" forum like this, and tend to slant one way (even if I slant that way myself).
3/7/02 8:32 AM
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Horatius
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Edited: 07-Mar-02
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Great men have to be lifted upon the shoulders of the whole world, in order to conceive their great ideas, or perform their great deeds. Nathaniel Hawthorne (1804 - 1864) US novelist, short-story writer If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. Isaac Newton (1642 - 1727) English mathematician, philosopher
3/7/02 8:32 AM
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Tony Blauer
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Edited: 07-Mar-02
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Blauer Tactical Systems, Inc.
NIce Mark. T
3/7/02 8:32 AM
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Yeah
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Edited: 07-Mar-02
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Good post MrTripp. I think its natural for humans to compare, its good thing.
3/7/02 8:32 AM
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Ausgepicht
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Edited: 07-Mar-02
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Pshaw!

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