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PoliticalGround >> Truth about Illegal Immigration

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8/1/06 7:39 PM
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QTyp
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Edited: 01-Aug-06
Member Since: 12/14/2000
Posts: 4474
I never blamed the illegals, I'd do the exact same thing in their shoes. Leaving my shit hole country to one where I get free stuff would kick ass. They are like the gophers in by back yard; they are cute, cuddly, work hard on their holes, and eat the bugs - but they stink, make noise, and trash the place.
8/1/06 8:29 PM
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ravenman2000
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Edited: 01-Aug-06
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 7136
Jbraswell, Bro, do you know what KidJustice's does? I'd consider him an expert more than some unnamed economists. I'd like to know what he does, just out of curiosity. Political policy analyst? Sociologist? Latin American Studies professor? Criminologist?
8/1/06 9:47 PM
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jman
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Edited: 01-Aug-06 09:54 PM
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 4925
Since there are approximately 12 million illegal immigrants, that would mean that 50% are paying income taxes, falling into that one-half to two-thirds range I cited earlier. OMG I wish it was only 12 million (estimates I've heard are 10-20 million). Don't forget that for every illegal, there is at least 1 or more LEGAL anchor babies. Try living in Los Angeles, there are probably at least 4 million here in LA.
8/1/06 9:56 PM
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chadk
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Edited: 01-Aug-06
Member Since: 05/12/2003
Posts: 6565
"I believe he's an agent for the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement. Could be wrong though." A supervisor with them actually but close enough.
8/1/06 10:18 PM
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poopyhead
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Edited: 01-Aug-06
Member Since: 04/16/2004
Posts: 494
Economists are pro-illegal immigration because it reduces labor costs, higher profits for business, GDP growth, etc. Their definition of "better off" means the average person can afford more stuff. The problem is always that there are distributional consequences. Illegal immigrants are mostly unskilled workers, so it drives wages down for unskilled workers in the U.S. and enriches the upper middle class/rich by giving them the chance to hire servants for less money. When unskilled workers try to oppose this, the elite dismisses them as racist. Accusations of racism serve to legitimate the U.S. class system. If you want to make an economist mad, interrupt his or her pro-free trade, pro-immigration, etc sermon and ask about distributional effects. It's not my responsibility to sacrifice my income and opportunity to let Mexico's elite defer fixing Mexico's problems by shipping their poor people north.
8/1/06 11:20 PM
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Jbraswell
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Edited: 01-Aug-06
Member Since: 07/15/2002
Posts: 3937
"This is an issue where people from both sides are going to pull stats out of their asses, since the real numbers are tough to pin down sometimes" It's more like an issue where labor unions pull numbers out of their ass while the vast majority of professionals who study the issue with actual data are essentially aligned on the opposite side. "If you want to make an economist mad, interrupt his or her pro-free trade, pro-immigration, etc sermon and ask about distributional effects." You couldn't be more wrong in assuming that mainstream economists aren't aware of this nuance. Are you even aware of David Card's work? "It's not my responsibility to sacrifice my income and opportunity to let Mexico's elite defer fixing Mexico's problems by shipping their poor people north." It's neither my nor Pedro's duty to sacrifice our mutually agreeable business transaction because you think you win a prize for the random geography of your birth. "this is a problem that people can pretend does not exsist, but will really fuck this country over bad in the long run." When polled, the public ALWAYS expresses anti-immigration sentiment. They've done this since polls have been taken. Every time they claim gloom and doom are imminent because of immigrantion, and EVERY TIME they're wrong. Look at political cartoons from the fucking 1930s that depict a bunch of smelly wops coming in to commit crime and 'take' jobs. The reason is simple: greed. Once people are "in the club," they want to deny everyone else the benefits attendant to it. It's the same reason labor unions seek to bar entrance into their profession, the same reason that you need more training time to become a hair stylist in Louisiana than you need to get a pilot's license.
8/1/06 11:50 PM
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wres157
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Edited: 01-Aug-06
Member Since: 02/04/2003
Posts: 4038
8/1/06 11:58 PM
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drjim
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Edited: 01-Aug-06
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 1607
But back in the 30's we didn't have enviornmental concerns, high murder rate, over crowding, high tax rates, welfare to pay for illegal immigrants. And so called wops came here legally.
8/2/06 12:11 AM
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JKING
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Edited: 02-Aug-06
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Kid, Is that info on a web page that I can send a link to a few people? Thanks, Jason
8/2/06 1:45 AM
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ravenman2000
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Edited: 02-Aug-06
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 7141
When polled, the public ALWAYS expresses anti-immigration sentiment. They've done this since polls have been taken. Every time they claim gloom and doom are imminent because of immigrantion, and EVERY TIME they're wrong. Look at political cartoons from the fucking 1930s that depict a bunch of smelly wops coming in to commit crime and 'take' jobs. If you look at it from their perspective, they were right! In the 1930 census, over ONE THIRD of the country was foreign-born. It may not have been gloom and doom, but the mass immigration forever changed the character of our country, our economy, and our political structure, something the majority of the established residents at the time did not want to happen. They were legitimately concerned about what they thought would happen, then it did happen, and it was irreversible right from the start.
8/2/06 3:47 AM
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cycklops
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Edited: 02-Aug-06
Member Since: 04/26/2003
Posts: 2486
If it makes anyone feel better I believe the National Guard being at the border is helping with the numbers of illegal crossings. And no I don't have absolute fuckin proof of this other than what I see at work every single day, which is fewer illegal entries (at least entries on land at the border). Flip to channel 1 and you'll see something completely to the contrary of what I just said. Flip to channel 2 and they'll agree so don't gimme any shit. I know what I see.
8/2/06 11:49 AM
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Jbraswell
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Edited: 02-Aug-06
Member Since: 07/15/2002
Posts: 3938
"It's called being a nation. We should look after our own citizens before we even think of helping illegals." First, your point doesn't apply because illegals are a net benefit (though a small one) to our country as a whole. Hence, we are looking after ourselves by letting them in. Second, our country's primary goal should be to protect the individual liberties of its inhabitants, not act as a nanny to "look after" them. I proclaim my right to associate economically with Pedro without anyone sticking his nose in it. "If it makes anyone feel better I believe the National Guard being at the border is helping with the numbers of illegal crossings." Actually, border security is one reason more illegals settle here. Prior to Reagan's border tightening, Mexican immigration was circular. They would tend to come here but go back. Now that crossing the border is a high-risk activity, they tend to stay here once they're here. Hence, guarding the border makes the so-called "problem" worse.
8/2/06 12:06 PM
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Jbraswell
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Edited: 02-Aug-06
Member Since: 07/15/2002
Posts: 3939
deathside, I don't have time go to through and find them for you, but I know I've seen them. You're correct that during the peak Depression years, there wasn't much immigration. However, by the mid 1930s, people again had sand in their pussies about immigrants, and various quotas were applied to immigrants from Asia. And, of course, governments all around were hesitant to let Jews escape from Nazi Germany in the late 1930s.
8/2/06 12:15 PM
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jman
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Edited: 02-Aug-06
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 4926
cycklops where and what do you do for work?
8/2/06 12:20 PM
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Atilda
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Edited: 02-Aug-06
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 12090
but, but, but... they do the jobs Americans won do!
8/2/06 1:35 PM
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cycklops
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Edited: 02-Aug-06 01:39 PM
Member Since: 04/26/2003
Posts: 2489
jman, I'm with Border Patrol in Yuma Sector. It's a focus sector for the entire country right now, which means, Yuma was getting walked over so a majority of the focus on new agents/technology is being put into Yuma. And as far as illegals settling in the US because of border security, though it may be true for some, it doesn't make sense. They were settling here illegally long before the borders were tightened. And, if you argue that many stay because it's too hard/dangerous to cross, how does that explain why they stayed when it was easier to cross? I don't get all the sympathy people have for illegals. Personally I don't care who comes here to stay, but there are legal routes to take. There's a process that's in place where if you decide the US is the place for you, you can apply and become a legal resident. There are legal means. It may take a while and I empathize with those people but the minute you come across that border by illegal means, all sympathy should go out the door. It's really black and white. You can't put the blame on border security for illegals remaining illegal in the US. Would you also blame police involved in a high speed chase of fleeing bank robber if the bank robber rolled the car and was killed? Hey, he wouldn't have died had the police not given chase.
8/2/06 1:56 PM
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KidJustice
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Edited: 02-Aug-06
Member Since: 02/15/2002
Posts: 6274

www.cis.org

Has some of the best unbiased Immigration info on it.

8/2/06 2:18 PM
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jman
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Edited: 02-Aug-06
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 4930
cycklops a sincere thanks for what you are doing.
8/2/06 3:06 PM
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Princess Bubble Yum
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Edited: 02-Aug-06
Member Since: 07/22/2004
Posts: 7847
"at least in the ghetto everyone's speaking english." LOL Funniest line in this whole thread!! English in the ghetto LOL man thats a hoot!
8/2/06 3:31 PM
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cycklops
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Edited: 02-Aug-06
Member Since: 04/26/2003
Posts: 2491
Thanks jman. It's really kinda nice to hear. It's funny. We'll be doing city patrol or highway patrol and people drive by, some give us thumbs up and mouth "thank you" and others go through the trouble of yelling out the window "fuck you guys! I hate you fucks!" But, business continues.
8/2/06 3:33 PM
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pa10002
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Edited: 02-Aug-06
Member Since: 05/31/2005
Posts: 1483
"First, your point doesn't apply because illegals are a net benefit (though a small one) to our country as a whole. Hence, we are looking after ourselves by letting them in." really, i thought our country was a democracy? being that the majority of citizens want illegals out, illegal immigration is not a net benefit.
8/2/06 3:35 PM
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Johnny99
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Edited: 02-Aug-06
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8/2/06 3:36 PM
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Johnny99
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Edited: 02-Aug-06
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8/2/06 4:02 PM
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jman
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Edited: 02-Aug-06
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We fucked over the indians that's for sure, but the USA paid Mexico $15 million dollars in 1853 for the land it took (in a war that the USA won). I had to wait a few years and pay hundreds of dollars to get my wife legally in the country, why should these fucks be able to break the law by coming here and then demand rights? It is fucking crazy. I'm all for legal immigration, fuck the illegals though. How many "pro illegal immigration" people actually live in a major city on a border state where illegal immigration is crippling the infrastructure? Los Angeles, Phoenix, Tuscon, Houston, etc.
8/2/06 4:08 PM
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cycklops
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Edited: 02-Aug-06
Member Since: 04/26/2003
Posts: 2492
I did the same thing. My, now, ex-wife had to wait to get in and we were fine with that because, call us crazy, we are law abiding.

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