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PoliticalGround >> Truth about Illegal Immigration


8/3/06 7:10 AM
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Jbraswell
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Edited: 03-Aug-06
Member Since: 07/15/2002
Posts: 3942
and now let's compound that over a number of years So, you're worried about China slowly amassing a 300 million person army over a 75-year period, all the while maintaining the loyalty of their emigrants who (somehow) won't instantly fall in love with their new life away from the dirty, Communist village? you know damn well that if even 5% of U.S. population (15 million) moved into Mexico illegally there would be yanqui lynchings all over the place. Why should I use the actions of backwards, irrational policymakers to inform my own policy? Who cares that Mexico does? moreover, why are we suddenly admitting that countries have a right to control the movement of foreigners into their country? My Libertarianism is not derived from Rockwellian absolutism. I remain, fundamentally, a utilitarian. "By best estimates, well over half of illegals pay income taxes and payroll taxes;" that's already been questioned in this thread. Questioned? Only in the sense that someone just said he didn't believe it. I provided two sources for that estimate, and other researchers have reached similar conclusions. Find me something credible that seriously disputes this number; I'd honestly appreciate it. lol, there was pretty strong consensus by economists in the Soviet Union that Marxist economics wasn't a crock of shit. I remember when scientists believed in ether. They were wrong; hence, we should never believe scientists again?? Besides, your comparing consensus amongst a relatively small subset of politically 'motivated' economists to a broad consensus of economists not in front of a gun. It's completely different. I don't particularly appreciate many illegals expecting people to speak to them and businesses to cater to them in Spanish in an English-speaking country. Really? Is it REALLY that much of a burden to you that perhaps, oh, one time in your life you were delayed by thirty seconds in buying your morning coffee because the Mexican customer in front of you had a hard time talking to the cashier? They don't 'expect' anything. They just come here hoping to get by, and if they can't do that, it's their problem, not yours. Obviously you have never had to fill out anything more than a 1040EZ form for your taxes. Hey, buddy, you pretty much got me pegged, except that I make well above average wage, am married, own a separate consulting firm, bought and sold real estate, and had dozens and dozens of deductions last year....except for all of that, you pretty much figured me out. There is nothing minimal about our government. Do you live in fantasy land? Yes, excellent point. Since our government is not currently perfect, we should immediately give in to the demands to make it worse.
8/3/06 12:51 PM
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Johnny99
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Edited: 03-Aug-06
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 21957

"if it was 14 million unarmed Islamists crossing our border, or 300 million unarmed Chinese Communist Party members entering the country on ships, we wouldn't even be having this conversation, we would actually kick their asses out."

And if it was thousands of Scandinavian women with big tits and pockets full of Viagra, the whole senate would be down at the Statue of Liberty to personally welcome them to America.   

But the immigrants in question are short, dark-skinned Catholics who can't speak English. But they're willing to go through a fucking Triathalon in the dark to work shit jobs for shit money to get a leg up to provide for their families.

I'm not saying that we should automatically make them citizens or anything, but what I am saying is they're going through a hell of a lot to get here, I respect their balls, and I think they are, for the most part, the kind of people that America needs. I'm just saying cut them a little slack, man.

And given half the chance, most of them (most of them I've met, anyway) would become citizens, pay income tax, and raise law-abiding families of hard-working, moral American citizens who would make as great a contribution to this country as every other wave of immigrants.

Ask an Italian-American or an Irish-American, etc. about all of the great men and women from their ethnic group and their contribution to America.      

8/4/06 12:41 AM
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Revolver of Reason
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Edited: 04-Aug-06 12:41 AM
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 34460
"I provided two sources for that estimate, and other researchers have reached similar conclusions. Find me something credible that seriously disputes this number; I'd honestly appreciate it." I would, except I'm too fucking lazy. Feel free to point and laugh. "Yes, excellent point. Since our government is not currently perfect, we should immediately give in to the demands to make it worse." one reason the Rockwellians are against current illegal immigration is largely because the government is currently so bad. Their argument, and it is a plausible one, is that illegal immigration is made dramatically worse by governmental incentives and regulations. i.e., they feel no restrictions on immigration is fine in a non-governmental environment, but not fine in the present governmental one, because of the perverse incentives it offers.
8/4/06 12:53 AM
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Revolver of Reason
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Edited: 04-Aug-06
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 34461
"I'm just saying cut them a little slack, man." If we really want to cut them a little slack, why are we not trying to fix Mexico? that is the core problem, and would help more people than just the people who can cross the border...
8/4/06 3:23 AM
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pa10002
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Edited: 04-Aug-06
Member Since: 05/31/2005
Posts: 1499
RoR I think you are smart enough to recognize the difference between a greek coming here and the trash 'refugees' they are bringing here today. http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/08/13/BAGOHE7HIN1.DTL&hw=gay+mexican&sn=001&sc=1000
9/20/07 2:35 AM
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IDXtreme
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Edited: 20-Sep-07
Member Since: 04/27/2002
Posts: 1382
"He decided that America was now his home. " This is an important difference. Leaving your culture behind to assimilate to th USA is not what most illegals are doing today. Most are not interested in our culture in the least, just what they can take from it.
9/20/07 4:35 PM
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oldnslow
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Edited: 20-Sep-07
Member Since: 06/10/2002
Posts: 2009
"This is an important difference. Leaving your culture behind to assimilate to th USA is not what most illegals are doing today. Most are not interested in our culture in the least, just what they can take from it." This was the sentiment for a large percentage of previous immigrants over the past couple hundred years. Many came just to make money and return, most stayed and assimilated over the course of a generation or two. It's part of this country's immigration experience.
9/29/07 4:48 PM
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Hessian
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Edited: 29-Sep-07
Member Since: 08/19/2006
Posts: 628
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Everyone here is going by just pure stats. Stats as we all know can be decieving. I have lived in South America for the last three years, I'm a full card carrying resident. Can own companies, carry a gun...whatever. The flood into the US of unwelcomes directly relates to the conditions these people are leaving. Seriously, these people are poor. Some more then your tin shack shanties you see on CNN. They are also corrupt beyond them even noticing anymore. In the two countries I live in (Columbia and Ecuador)a traffic stop is nothing more then the cops wanting a payoff to buy more booze for the night. Ten bucks usually does it. Murders are rampant much like in the US but here the cost of getting rid of someone I heard is 50 bucks. Five hundred for a Columbian to do it since they have more experience. People place ads in newspapers for people to hire. Cocaine is a dollar a gram and a kilo runs around 800 bucks. Most people in a round about way have either touched coke money here or "cleaned" the money on it's way back to the fat cats in Miami. I have had over 212 employees in 2 years, (currently 36)in those two years I have had 22 people arrested for theft. Part of the reason people take whatever they can here is that governments supports inept people. For instance, here in ECuador they consider people who steal candy, sunglasses ect., and sell them on the street as employeed. That is their job, standing on a street corner peeing while watching their 4 year old kid do sommersaults for a nickel. I don't see how CDN or the US will get a handle on latin unwelcomes when they are simply living the same way they do in their home countries. Now for the haters, both are beautiful countries with many many millions of hard working people. Many living in poverty, if you have a family to feed you do what you have to do. A popular saying in EC is, "why work? the fruit just falls from the trees"
10/10/07 1:21 PM
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jaseprobst
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Edited: 10-Oct-07
Member Since: 06/06/2003
Posts: 10240
ROR is an intelligent man, and an educated thinker.

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