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8/7/06 8:52 PM
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Crafty Dog
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Edited: 07-Aug-06
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 325
 
Woof All: Following up on a post of mine in "Knife and Gun Disarms" thread (which you may want to (re)read for context here: Our newest project is a triple disc featuring noted combat firearms instructor Gabe Suarez and me and is titled "Die Less Often: Intro to the Interface of Gun, Knife and Empty Hand". There is a promo clip up on our website www.dogbrothers.com and the masters are at the duplication house and we should receive our first copies and being shipping in about 10 days (at which point the pre-order price will be going up :-) ) What follows is a rough draft of an interview I did for LEO Kevin Davis and is posted here with his gracious permission. The Adventure continues Crafty Dog ================ LEO Interview: 1) Most law enforcement officers are of the opinion that "the suspect brought a knife to a gunfight". Why is this mindset dangerous? It is not a fight. It is an ambush. The initiation goes to the knifer because he is the bad guy. A knife never runs out of ammo. A knife never goes out of battery-- even during a life and death struggle between two men. Like the gun, the point of the knife can kill. Unlike the gun, not only can you not grab the edge, but the edge can kill you as well. When a knife is inserted, the amount of damage that can be done with twisting, slashing and other continuing motions is extraordinary. 2) Most shootings take place within 6 feet and look little like standard firearms training. With your experience in full-contact stick fighting, where do you think we're going wrong? First I would like to make very clear that I don't think in terms of you guys "going wrong", I simply think I have something to offer. Second, I'd like to make clear that I regard my experience with Real Contact Stickfighting as only part of what I bring to the table. In addition to quality training under some of the finest martial ats teachers in the world, I have been teaching prison guards, law enforcement, and elite military soldiers for years now. I am a Level Three Combatives Instructor for the US Army. My point here is that by teaching these men and women I also have learned. I always ask questions and ask for questions. By engaging with these real world questions, I continue to learn. That said, as asked your question is strictly about firearms training. This is NOT an area of expertise for me-- quite the contrary. Yet the logic of firearms is implicit in what I teach and I have set about rectifying this weak link in my chain. This is why the "Die Less Often: Intro to the Interface of Gun, Knife and Empty Hand" is a joint project with noted combat firearms instructor and former LEO Gabe Suarez. Conversely it is precisely Gabe's experience with shootings occurring within 6 feet that brought him to me. Coming from complementary directions, we arrive at the same place-- the interface of gun, knife and empty hand. In other words, my contribution is to the combatives element of the interface, including weapon protection and retention, weapon access, and defense against weapons including disarms and weapon captures. The martial arts which form the core of my training (Kali-Silat and others) are precisely about contact weapons such as stick, knives, clubs, staffs, improvised weapons, etc. They were developed not for young male ritual hierarchical combat but for life and death conflict-- conflict which involves ambush, uneven numbers in 360 degree situations, weapons. The access issues of a gun during ECQ overlap considerably with the access issues of stick/ASP/baton/knife during ECQ-- likewise the retention issues. I think where my experience in the adrenal state using these skills in Real Contact Stickfighting (about 140 fights) and considerable experience in training others to do so as well is relevant. Although I am but a civilian, I have had a moral place wherein to experience the adrenal application of my training to a far greater than if I had to wait for "on the street" experience. I certainly would have to be a person of very poor judgement and/or morality to have this amount of adrenal experience in a "normal" life!!! Anyway, because of these things people seem to appreciate what I can contribute. 3) How can police engage in realistic close quarters or extreme close quarters firearms training that incorporates empty hand? I am sure that you and your readers are familiar with simuntions training, scenario training, and so forth. These are all very good! What I would offer to the mix is what we call the Kali Fence and the Dog Catcher, weapon access once the fight has started and both the restraint methods and the extreme violence methods which I have been taught. The Kali Fence is a particular fence that in my opinion is ideal for conducting interviews with dubious individuals, weapons retention, pre-emption, interception of all the likely attack angles. It is set up to work against larger and stronger individuals as well. There is a body of material for pre-empting and intercepting attacks that is ideal for solving/countering/avoiding common concealed gun and knife draws as well as empty hand attacks while positioning the officer for cuffing or drawing his sidearm or other tools. The Dog Catcher is for when we are reacting to an attack; if we already are in a Kali Fence, then so much the better. In ECQ the reaction time is a split second. As recognized by DT instructors everywhere, there is considerable value in having a "non-diagnostic default response" i.e. something that officers can automatically do when sudden aggressive moves are made towards them without first having to discern exactly the nature of the attack because simply there is not enough time. As I understand it, the idea is to survive the initial ambush strike and get into the fight. My understanding is that these default positions typically are about protecting the head and neck. My concern is that if the attack is with a knife that the lung/heart are exposed to the very common hooking/stabbing motion, the belly exposed to the slash, and the groin/femoral exposed to rising hooking/stabbing motions.
8/7/06 8:53 PM
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Crafty Dog
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Edited: 07-Aug-06
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 326
The Dog Catcher does require diagnosis as to whether the attack comes from the right or left. If the attack comes from the perp's left side a different response is called for. Because the Kali Fence's hand position defines centerline the response on this side readily becomes quite instinctive. The Dog Catcher is for attacks that come from the right--and some 90% of the population is right handed. As we see in our stickfighting, in footage of prison attacks, in footage of riots and street attacks, the natural human tendency in the enraged state is what we call "caveman" strikes--be they empty handed, with clubs or with knives. This can be done crudely or in a cultivated manner--what we call the "prison sewing machine" which is demonstrated in the promo clip for "Die Less Often" by my good friend and longtime federal prison guard Dogzilla. My thinking on this point originated in a conversation I had several years ago with a former member of the Aryan Brotherhood who had killed people in prison. "What technique did you use?" He looked at me like I was an idiot. I felt like an idiot. "You don't use any technique. You steel yourself up; (his body began to steel up as memories were awakened) you pump him until he is dead; and then you bind your wounds." In the Dog Catcher I seek to offer something that can readily be done in the high adrenal state (and here I think my experience as a Dog Brothers stick fighter and as someone who has taken many people from all walks of life to the level where they can perform at this level of pressure helps me a lot) against someone who is steeled up and is coming to pump an officer until he/she is dead. Apart from slight adjustments due to the angle of attack, the Dog Catcher is non-diagnostic in the sense that applies to both common empty hand and common knife attacks on the high, middle and rising hook lines. Also very important is that it is designed to offer the officer the option of taking the perp down for disarming and cuffing OR breaking off at an angle to access the sidearm or other tools. THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT POINT. For a civilian, this would be the moment to run away. 4) What has your "field testing" found about close quarters deadly force incidents that surprised you? Given my Dog Brother background-- vigorous testing is something I strongly believe in. Something that surprised me very much was that there were times that the "knifer" wound up on the good guy's back- typically at about 04:30--as he applied the Dog Catcher. I could have blamed poor execution of the technique, but really the only relevant thing is that it was happening. That said, what surprised me even more was that, because of the relative position of hands and limbs, this turned out to be a Plan B position of considerable merit for the good guy. Experimentation and research are indespensible! If this is not answering your question as intended, I apologize--but as a civilian my philosophy is "What you think of me is none of my business." In other words, I do not respond to insults and other such foolishness. As such, so far I have been able to avoid deadly force incidents in my own life--apart from that one time that got me thrown into a Mexican prison for three days, but that was to save a girl from being dragged off to be raped by four guys. But I digress , , , 5) In your opinion what is the state of modern police suspect control or defensive tactics training? I do not regard myself as qualified to have an opinion! My impression, based upon numerous informal conversations it that this is an area in tremendous flux. Some departments seem to be rather fossilized, and others are very cutting edge. I believe I have something to contribute and if the officers agree, then that is my great honor. The Adventure continues, Marc "Crafty Dog" Denny
8/29/06 4:47 PM
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Crafty Dog
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Edited: 29-Aug-06
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 335
Now available. Our website www.dogbrothers.com now has two animated tech sequences on it.
9/1/06 1:12 PM
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sreiter
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Edited: 01-Sep-06
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 11802
how much live combat do you show? do you have someone with a magic marker going against someone using your techs and evaluate whether or not they'd die? do you have someone using simunition go against someone tring to disarm someone with a gun?
9/2/06 11:18 AM
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Crafty Dog
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Edited: 02-Sep-06
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 340
A post to the "Eskrima Digest" ============================= From: "Kevin Davis" Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 18:08:01 -0400 Subject: [Eskrima] Dogbrothers Die Less Often DVD Just received my new (3) DVD set "Die Less Often: Intro to the interface of gun, knife, and empty hand" from the Dogbrothers. Forum member Marc "Crafty Dog" Denny has teamed with former LEO and firearms instructor Gabe Suarez to produce an innovative program for interfacing empty hand and pistol against a knife wielding assailant. As a full-time LEO and firearms trainer as well as a FMA player, I can heartily endorse the product. Too many officers or for that matter CCW permit holders believe their pistol will solve all problems. What Crafty has reminded us and given concepts and techniques for overcoming, is that the knife can be devastating at close range and the threat must be neutralized prior to or while the handgun is accessed. All handgun carriers should remember that a gunfight is first and foremost a fight. Too often pistol training on a "flat range" looks more like competition instead of the down and dirty close range "gunfight" it frequently is. As Marc would say, a tail wag for a fine product from Crafty and Suarez. I for one am looking forward to more in this regard. Mabuhay ang Inayan Eskrima! KD
9/2/06 6:20 PM
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sreiter
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Edited: 02-Sep-06
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 11804
LMAO why not tell everyone how much EVERYONE kisses your ass on ED guess you dont show any live force on your DVD's since you didnt answer my Q's I tihnk it's pretty irresponsible to present a product to the public that claims the material contained therein, once learnt, will allow you to survive a gun attack i'm sure you have all sort of legal mumbo jumbo to protect yourself when someone die's, but thats a late after you have their money
9/7/06 2:40 AM
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Marc_Scott
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Edited: 07-Sep-06
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 2208
Russian Judo
Marc did demo his defense against edged weapon training, and had no issues with me asking to challenge it full force. Which I did. I found it to be a very effective way to deal with the dedicated, committed attacker.
9/7/06 9:18 PM
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