UnderGround Forums
 

PoliticalGround >> Pat Tillman's Brother Speaks Out.!

| Share | Email | Subscribe | Check IPs

10/20/06 4:39 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
pm1964
84 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 20-Oct-06
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 19963
I'll simply copy my post from the first thread abou thtis. "Powerful commentary. I respectfully disagree with his opinion."
10/20/06 4:40 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
WilliamOfOckham
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 20-Oct-06
Member Since: 01/25/2006
Posts: 10245
For Pro Wangus Mouf
10/20/06 4:42 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
CPracer16
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 20-Oct-06
Member Since: 06/06/2006
Posts: 1618
Here is a series of investigative reports on the true story behind the planned death of Pat Tillman http://fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/index.shtml#tillman
10/20/06 4:43 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
WilliamOfOckham
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 20-Oct-06
Member Since: 01/25/2006
Posts: 10247
^^^^^^^^^^LOL Ricky Retardo AKA Cpracer16 makes his appearance
10/20/06 4:44 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
ProMagnus
1 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 20-Oct-06
Member Since: 04/07/2004
Posts: 3275
I thought you repiglicans were about moral absolutism? I though "Relativism" was for the immoral left. How can you both you and Kevin Tillman both be right? The truth is either Kevin is right, and I think the evidence and truth show that he is or Stupid Neo-con bigots and fools like you are right and Kevin is wrong, and I think that reality and truth show that this is definately not correct. The fact is simple. Kevin Tillman is right about this war being built on lies and you are wrong, and are too stubborn in your stupidity to admit it.
10/20/06 4:45 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Information
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 20-Oct-06
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 12978
How can you both you and Kevin Tillman both be right? Maybe you are too dumb to understand the difference between having the "right" to an opinion and having an opinion that is "right"?
10/20/06 4:49 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
WilliamOfOckham
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 20-Oct-06
Member Since: 01/25/2006
Posts: 10248
"Maybe you are too dumb to understand the difference between having the "right" to an opinion and having an opinion that is "right"? " I know this may be a bit sophomoric, but, Information just hershey squirted all up in your grill!
10/20/06 4:50 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Fraser
46 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 20-Oct-06
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 38280
General concedes failure in Baghdad Bush acknowledges comparison to '68 Tet offensive in Vietnam Anna Badkhen, Chronicle Staff Writer Friday, October 20, 2006 In a confluence of grim official assessments of the war in Iraq, President Bush acknowledged that sectarian bloodletting in Baghdad could be compared to the Viet Cong's 1968 Tet offensive in Vietnam, and one of the top U.S. generals said the American military's two- month drive to crush the spiraling violence in the Iraqi capital had failed. Such downbeat opinions, accompanied by reports of alarmingly high American casualties and unabated violence in Iraq, indicate that U.S. officials at the highest levels are rethinking the progress the United States is making in Iraq, experts said. "What this suggests to me is that people in fairly senior levels are getting increasingly worried about what's going on," said Jeffrey White, an expert on military and security affairs at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy. "The increasing pessimism among serious analysts of the conflict is beginning to have an effect," said White, a former government intelligence analyst. "Policy makers are beginning to, if not accept the ultimate conclusions, then at least the main thrust of it: that we're not getting better, that the Iraqi government isn't working, that the Iraqi security forces are not standing up the way we would like them to." Bush, who had rejected parallels between the fighting in Iraq and the Vietnam War, reconsidered his stance in an interview with ABC News on Wednesday, saying that New York Times columnist Thomas Friedman "could be right" in comparing the violence in Baghdad to the Tet offensive. "There's certainly a stepped-up level of violence, and we're heading into an election," Bush said. On Jan. 30, 1968, communist North Vietnamese troops chose Tet, the Vietnamese lunar New Year holiday, to launch coordinated ground attacks against American bases and cities across South Vietnam. Many Vietnam historians call the offensive a turning point for the war in Vietnam as well as a prime reason why President Lyndon Johnson withdrew from his re-election campaign. Bush's spokesman, Tony Snow, said Thursday that "we do not think there has been a flip-over point" in Iraq. "We are going to continue pursuing victory aggressively," he said. But on Thursday, Maj. Gen. William Caldwell, the top U.S. military spokesman in Iraq, announced that the American-led crackdown on violence in Baghdad had failed and said U.S. commanders were consulting with the Iraqi government on a new approach.
10/20/06 4:52 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Information
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 20-Oct-06
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 12979
Fraser, Do you know that the Tet Offensive is considered as the battle that broke the back of the Viet Cong?
10/20/06 4:53 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
WilliamOfOckham
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 20-Oct-06
Member Since: 01/25/2006
Posts: 10250
War is never a downhill glide, it's a fluid confrontation dotted with heroin like highs and depressive lows. Luckily, this isn't our first rodeo and we understand adaptation an re-evaluation are vital. I'm confident we will find a new approach and yet again make positive progress.
10/20/06 4:57 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Fraser
46 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 20-Oct-06
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 38281
I am not a Vietnam War expert, but it sure seems like more and more of our guys higher and higher up the chain of command are admitting that Iraq is turning out to be a failure.
10/20/06 5:02 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
CPracer16
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 20-Oct-06
Member Since: 06/06/2006
Posts: 1619
william of love the cockum you are just an internet pussy that likes to troll around and spew nazi propaganda. Your hero is GHWB who's family fortune was made from nazi Germany. Harriman Bank was the main Wall Street connection for German companies and the varied U.S. financial interests of Fritz Thyssen, who had been an early financial backer of the Nazi party until 1938, but who by 1939 had fled Germany and was bitterly denouncing Hitler. Business transactions for profit with Nazi Germany were not illegal when Hitler declared war on the US, but, six days after the attack on Pearl Harbor, President Roosevelt signed the Trading With the Enemy Act after it had been made public that U.S. companies were doing business with the declared enemy of the United States. On October 20, 1942, the U.S. government ordered the seizure of Nazi German banking operations in New York City. The Harriman business interests seized under the act in October and November 1942 included: Union Banking Corporation (UBC) (for Thyssen and Brown Brothers Harriman). The President of UBC at that time was George Herbert Walker, Prescott Bush's father-in-law. He is the grandfather and great-grandfather of the former and current President Bush. Holland-American Trading Corporation (with Harriman) the Seamless Steel Equipment Corporation (with Harriman) Silesian-American Corporation (this company was partially owned by German entity; during the war the Germans tried to take the full control of Silesian-American. In response to that, American government seized German owned minority shares in the company, leaving the U.S. partners to carry on the business.) The assets were held by the government for the duration of the war, then returned afterward. UBC was dissolved in 1951. Prescott Bush was on the board of directors of UBC and held one share in the company. For it, he was reimbursed $1,500,000. These assets were later used to launch Bush family investments in the Texas energy industry. This presupposes that Union Banking Corporation was worth $4 billion, of which almost all would have been paid to the Harrimans
10/20/06 5:03 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Information
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 20-Oct-06
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 12980
I am not a Vietnam War expert, but it sure seems like more and more of our guys higher and higher up the chain of command are admitting that Iraq is turning out to be a failure. It was considered a propoganda victory, but militarily the forces of the VC and NVA were defeated. In fact, the VC were basically finished as a capable fighting force following Tet. As for more and more people in the chain of command admitting that Iraq is a failure, there are just as many (if not more) that are able to highlight the positive developments in the region. None are saying that the battle we are currently in is simple or easily won. They are saying it is a hard fought, difficult objective, and that we will inevitably suffer setbacks.
10/20/06 5:04 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
BlackJesus
190 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 20-Oct-06
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 4521
TTT
10/20/06 5:07 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Fraser
46 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 20-Oct-06
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 38282
"It was considered a propoganda victory, but militarily the forces of the VC and NVA were defeated. In fact, the VC were basically finished as a capable fighting force following Tet." How does that correlate to the Iraq situation? Do you think the insurgents are burning themselves out trying to influence the election? "As for more and more people in the chain of command admitting that Iraq is a failure, there are just as many (if not more) that are able to highlight the positive developments in the region." However, we are not meeting any objectives that justify the loss of life and global stability. "None are saying that the battle we are currently in is simple or easily won." They sure as hell were in 2003.
10/20/06 5:12 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Information
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 20-Oct-06
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 12981
How does that correlate to the Iraq situation? I have no idea. Do you think the insurgents are burning themselves out trying to influence the election? That's certainly a plausible theory, but I'm skeptical of the probability of insurgents timing their attacks to coincide with a US election. More likely, IMHO, is that the rise in violence is in response to the US effort to pacify the capital. Which may have been propogated by the Administration in the hopes that a peaceful Baghdad by election would mean more votes, but who knows. However, we are not meeting any objectives that justify the loss of life and global stability. There are those who would agree and those who would disagree. What's the point in finding out who can trot out more sources? They sure as hell were in 2003. In some ways they were right and in some ways they were wrong. In some ways those that opposed this war were right and in some (most) ways they were wrong.
10/20/06 5:14 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
CPracer16
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 20-Oct-06
Member Since: 06/06/2006
Posts: 1622
The only higher up military people that will speak out are the ones who are no longer active. Why do you think that is, why would any current high ranking officer speak out against the war? To demoralize his own troops any more than they already are?
10/20/06 5:19 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Information
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 20-Oct-06
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 12982
Why do you think that is, why would any current high ranking officer speak out against the war? Ask H.R. McMaster.
10/20/06 5:40 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
ProMagnus
1 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 20-Oct-06
Member Since: 04/07/2004
Posts: 3276
^^^^ Why don't YOU ask Gen Eric Shinseki who said in late 2002 that the US would need AT LEAST 300,000 troops to stablize Iraq after an invasion. Rumsfeld public denounced Shinseki as being "exagerrative" and along with Tricky Dick Chaney said that the Iraqis would welcome us as liberators. Typical republican tactic of refusing to face reality and instead retreating into their own delusions.
10/20/06 5:41 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
honestus
55 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 20-Oct-06 05:53 PM
Member Since: 04/01/2005
Posts: 1960
You want to know why most aren't responding to your thread? I usually wonder the same thing when there are countless cases where people use examples of other people saying good things, that YOU never address. As for Tillman, unfortunately yes he lost a brother, both were heroes and patriots, but if it was really that bad and wrong why is it only 1 person speaking out? I might think a little too logically so I'll break it down really simple for you. There have been hundreds of thousands of people going to Iraq and Afghanistan and how many speak out against it? How many people don't? If you look at the overwhelming majority (people who don't speak out saying its wrong) then you will get the idea of the general consensus about the war. Why is it people continue to deploy and volunteer? Seems to me most people don't put themselves in harms way for just minimum wage unless they believe in what their doing. Tillman lost hi brother, he is and will always be a patriot, but even a patriot can be wrong and bitter. He has his views but they are only his. If this was the general consensus the military would speak out against the war far more. Or maybe we could just use one of the libs favorite quotes "wait, hes promoting a book, right?" If this war in the Stan is so wrong and illegal, why has NATO stepped up? I mean if we are so wrong why are they helping out? As for Iraq why do you continue to avoid my points of the everyday interaction with those who are here/ have been here? *spelling
10/20/06 5:41 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
ProMagnus
1 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 20-Oct-06 05:44 PM
Member Since: 04/07/2004
Posts: 3277
"but if it was really that bad and wrong why is it only 1 person speaking out?" LMAO@ that fucking lie. Last I checked over 70% of the American people feel the same way. So its not "one guy".
10/20/06 5:50 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
honestus
55 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 20-Oct-06
Member Since: 04/01/2005
Posts: 1961
over 70% huh? how about you get some real statistics. besides I'm talking about the military, last I checked it wasn't him and his brother vs all of the afghanistan...
10/20/06 5:54 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
ProMagnus
1 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 20-Oct-06
Member Since: 04/07/2004
Posts: 3279
Do you really want me to get the polls and post them. Common dude why do you want me to show you something you already know. "last I checked it wasn't him and his brother vs all of the afghanistan..." That didn't stop chickenhawks like you from trying to use Pat for your propoganda by lying about the circumstances of his death and making up bullshit that supported your agenda and keeping the truth from his family. How can you swim in all these lies and not get fucking sick of yourself. Come man, do you even have a soul?
10/20/06 5:56 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
honestus
55 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 20-Oct-06
Member Since: 04/01/2005
Posts: 1962
"but if it was really that bad and wrong why is it only 1 person speaking out?" LMAO@ that fucking lie. Last I checked over 70% of the American people feel the same way. So its not "one guy". *sigh ok again let me spell it out for you... I might think a little too logically so I'll break it down really simple for you. There have been hundreds of thousands of people going to Iraq and Afghanistan and how many speak out against it? How many people don't? this was the sentence that directly followed my statement. when one sentence follows another it usually pertains to the same topic. This is called reading. You should try it instead of selectivly pulling out facts that fit what you can argue against. try addressing my questions instead of avioding them. you, after all, did get pissy about the same thing, didn't you?
10/20/06 5:59 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
ProMagnus
1 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 20-Oct-06
Member Since: 04/07/2004
Posts: 3280
"Before the Iraq War, the Bush Administration said it had intelligence reports indicating that Iraq was hiding banned chemical or biological weapons from UN weapons inspectors. But so far, no such banned weapons have been found in Iraq. Do you think the Bush Administration "Misinterpreted or misanalyzed the intelligence reports they said indicated Iraq had banned weapons" 10/5-6/06 Yes No Unsure 61 % 30 % 9 % Newsweek Poll conducted by Princeton Survey Research Associates International. Oct. 5-6, 2006. N=1,004 adults nationwide. MoE ? 3.

| Share | Email | Subscribe | Check IPs

Reply Post

You must log in to post a reply. Click here to login.