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TMA UnderGround >> What are your views on Aikido?


11/11/08 4:58 PM
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Stronghold
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Doesn't the university of Alabama have some Yoeshinkin or whatever guy there? Supposedly, he was doing ground fighting long before UFC 1. I read about the program in about 1994 I think. Mits Yamashita combined BJJ and aikido about then, too. Also, some guy in Chicago got his 3rd dan in the Alabama style then created his own street fighting style of aikido after "10,000 hours of testing and revising it". I have a tape of his somewhere :) Also, some obscure guy in, I think, Louisiana combined Greco and aikido a while back. A friend of mine stationed there knew a former student and said the art looked 'funky' (he'd done tkd and some aikido but only for a coupla years so lots of things would look funky to him!).

Anyway, the point is, the concepts of aikido have been combined with other styles for a long time. If one of the sytles worked, it would not surprise me but you'd better have a solid grasp of kickboxing and some type of wrestling before trying that shit on an experienced fighter. The idea of the weaker person using leverage and joint locks to defeat the stronger adversary is a sound one PROVIDED it is done right. Hapkido should be the best thing out there but I've sparred with a few of those guys and their kicking is weak, punching flawed, throws seemed awkward, and groundfighting limited. But, there is also a huge difference between fighting in a padded ring and getting attacked in a dark alley.

Do what you enjoy but never stop looking for your answer, I say
12/10/08 2:11 PM
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Stronghold
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Man, I just watched a bunch of demos of aikido on youtube. Wow... I didn't know EVERYONE threw a punch by running past a guy with their arm out straight. Of course, you get thrown doing that but that seems to be how to punch a guy. The best vid was of a BB test run by Seagal years ago. The guy testing got the crap knocked out of him. The rest of the vids were flights of fancy.
2/24/09 5:10 PM
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blackfish123
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ottmandus - Yeah but do the same breakfall without slapping the mat and (to meany way) it seems just as effective but just rolling into it just doesn't make that exciting bang when you hit . In one sparring session I was in I performed a sag headlock and the guy I was throwing put his arm out to slap the mat and since it was a sag throw and not a flip I dislocated his shoulder.


Your partner didnt do a proper breakfall. He probably landed on the point of his elbow or hands. A breakfall done correctly will disperse the energy of a fall along a larger surface area thereby reducing chance of injury. That's the purpose, not to make a "exciting" slapping sound.

An example is use a needle and push it against a balloon. Then use your finger and push it against another balloon with the same amount of force.
2/25/09 10:01 AM
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Stronghold
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True. I attended a 3 day san soo seminar a few years ago. It was held in a hotel where the floor was carpeted concrete. Day 3 was throw day. I was the only guy to wear a gi (kombat kimono actually) so I wouldn't scuff my elbows up.

Guess who EVERYONE threw onto the concrete all day long? I was okay at falls at 9am, I was great at them by 3pm. I walked sideways for 2 days too! The point being: "A breakfall done correctly will disperse the energy of a fall along a larger surface area thereby reducing chance of injury."
5/2/09 4:24 PM
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Antonio bustillo
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Edited: 05/02/09 4:37 PM
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1. Is it a fair criticism to say that you never see aikido practioners in judo tournaments?

*No, they stress they are a 'non-competetive' art.

2. Is it good only for unsuspecting drunks?
*and five years old.

3. Why do places like the Tokyo Police Academy still incorporate it? *Ask them.

4. If it is a "functional" style?

*It's not practical for "real" self-defense.In their demos, the attacks are unrealistic to begin with. It's virtually impossible to pull their stuff off on an uncooperative person.

5. Has all the mystical mumbo jumbo ruined it's useful aspects or "harder" versions like Yoshinkan Aikido?

*Ueshiba joined a cult. Much of the cult teachings, and its leader, highly influenced Ueshina, thus aikido. At ome point, the cult headquarters were raided by the Japanese military. --Ueshiba would've drank the coolaide.
5/5/09 5:14 AM
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laqueus
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Details on the cult?
5/6/09 4:01 PM
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Antonio bustillo
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Edited: 05/06/09 4:37 PM
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The cult "OMOTo-kyo."Onisaburo Deguchi was the cult leader when Ueshiba joined.

Deguchi claimed to be the reincarnation of a deity.( not sure which one)

Ueshiba joined the Omoto cult around 1919. The cult headquaters was raided twice. By the police in 1921, then again, in 1935, by the military. In both incidents the cult leaders were arrested abd thier shrines and buildings destroyed.

Ueshiba had to lay low for a time after the second raid due to his close ties to the cult.

It should be noted that during this era, there were many aikido practitioners who did not agree with the cult. They did not care for its ideas nor Deguchi's influence on their teacher Ueshiba.
5/6/09 7:50 PM
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laqueus
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Interesting.

I did an Aikido class a couple months back. There was this habit of never bowing with your back to the sensei or to Ueshiba's photo. Is this more of an anal Japanese characteristic or would that be more of an Oomoto thing?
5/7/09 3:59 PM
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Antonio bustillo
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Edited: 05/11/09 8:18 AM
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There are certain protocols about the 'shomen' and shrine. The part you describe about the sensei, not sure, but there is a lot of idol worship ridiculousness in the martial arts.
5/8/09 4:43 AM
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laqueus
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Yeah. I decided to use it as an exercise in awareness, that the sensei and the picture were enemies and I never want my guard down when they're behind me. Quite a stretch I know, but gotta make the most of my time.
5/16/09 12:36 PM
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warriors project
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It seems to me that pure Aikido, works mostly if someone is coming to push or pull you.
Aside from in the movies I haven't seen it being used on someone coming to strike.
I have seen some teachers, however, putting the techniques into work on strikers, but only after they give a strike of their own inorder to dis-orient and distract...
5/16/09 6:20 PM
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laqueus
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What counts as pure Aikido? I get the impression from Aikido discussions on AikiWeb that using strikes to distract is an inherrent part of Aikido.
5/16/09 6:34 PM
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GaydarBlane
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^^

An "inherent" part just like atemi waza is a part of classical Judo's core curriculum. It isn't practiced much if at all and certainly in no realistic manner.
5/17/09 7:13 AM
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laqueus
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Oh yes, of course. Just like people say BJJ has takedowns.
5/17/09 8:12 AM
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GaydarBlane
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I'd say even less so. At least you see BJJ people practice takedowns sometimes in a live manner.
5/17/09 5:41 PM
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laqueus
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Yeah, but it's still tits on a bull, even strategic guard pulling is pretty weak.
5/18/09 1:45 PM
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GaydarBlane
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I'm not disagreeing, but BJJ's takedown game is lightyears ahead of Aikido's striking game. An average BJJ blue belt is like a collegiate wrestling champion compared to an Aikido blackbelt's striking game.
5/18/09 2:47 PM
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Stronghold
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This is why Hapkido (old style (IE: Real) TKD + a hard style Aikido + some judo) SHOULD be the best system there is. The truth is that its striking has been watered down even more than TKD's has and it suffers from the same uke based training bullshit aikido does as well as the mystic 'chi energy' horseshit. I think both its and aikido's Bushido way has been lost a long time ago.
5/18/09 2:56 PM
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GaydarBlane
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I'd agree with that. Hapkido and Daito-ryu seem like they'd be great systems with the correct training.
5/18/09 5:55 PM
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laqueus
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I guess it depends on the system. The training in the Hapkido I do is great, closer to MMA than a TMA, but the curriculum just sucks.
5/18/09 9:04 PM
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Stronghold
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I think the problem there is that no one has taken any of these systems past the TMA stage to the MMA stage like Maeda did with the Gracies continuing that new tradition.

I was hoping Combat Hapkido was going to make that transition but it was a stillborn concept I think (I went to 3 of Pellegrini's seminars - great stuff but very limited in application).

Also, I really thought we'd see a Tomiki aikido guy in Pride by now or a Hapkido guy come in a win big, but I guess I'll have to wait a little longer to see that.
5/19/09 12:41 AM
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laqueus
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Hapkido's curriculum is by and large too fractured.

Also there has been a Hapkido guy, to a degree. Bill Mahood trained Hapkido, but was kicked out of the organisation for doing MMA.
5/19/09 8:56 AM
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Stronghold
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Right, they DISCOURAGE real usage of their 'art' as does TKD, some Kungfu and Karate schools, and pretty much all 'soft' arts like Aikido. Herbie Perez (gold TKD medalist) was pretty much kicked out by Kukkiwon (the TKD overlords) for being an accouncer at an early UFC. WTF?
5/21/09 4:28 AM
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laqueus
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Kyokushin does that too. I believe that was the reason for Seido coming about. It's basically Kyokushin without the anal no fighting for money rule.
5/22/09 9:07 AM
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Stronghold
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That might also be an Oriental 'face' thing. You know, if you fight and lose then your entire art is disgraced especially if it is a MA of 'peace'. Westerners, by and large, don't get that except that we still heard stuff like "GJJ SUX!!" right after Hughes beat Royce's face into the mat a while back.

It's really pretty silly either way. You fight a person, not a belt or a school. But, figure also, there is money at stake so people tend to show their true colors!

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