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TMA UnderGround >> What are your views on Aikido?


5/22/09 10:52 AM
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GaydarBlane
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"It's really pretty silly either way. You fight a person, not a belt or a school. But, figure also, there is money at stake so people tend to show their true colors! "

People understand that... now. Before the UFC and even now at many martial arts schools, you are sold on your art being superior to other arts (eg other arts are inferior). By practicing that art, you are a better fighter, but beware your techniques. They are deadly.

I still practice TMA at world-renown schools for their style with this laughable mind set. Nobody at the schools know that I used to practice MMA and competitively boxed and grappled.
5/22/09 12:20 PM
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Stronghold
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Good move. The last tournament I reffed at was a disaster. After it, they school owner always had a banquet for the the helpers and I started talking to the other refs about my amatuer fighting and how great training in grappling was. The look in their eyes was astonishing. They all looked like I had just kicked Jesus Christ in the balls.
5/22/09 4:15 PM
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laqueus
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Well if they're afraid of losing, why do they bother training?
5/22/09 5:12 PM
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Stronghold
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It's not that, I was just talking about something other that THEIR art. I was training and fighting, gasp, under different rules in a... different... style. Their world just ends where mine began (I took off my black belt in favor of my old, filthy white one because of a desire to learn, not just be a 'master' in a one-dimensional art).
7/8/09 11:12 AM
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Pson
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I think Aikido helped me a great deal and loved it a great deal as well. My style of Aikido was the best of all for the simple fact it only works on the basics. It was Yoseikan Aikido and when Minoru Mochizuki passed away and the son started to change the teaching into a more main stream aikido (more bowing and fake without Key on the joint locks) My master broke away to keep those teaching true to Minoru Mochizuki art.

It had Judo throws in the art (50%) and I am able to do judo matches just fine. Now, I do MMA for when I moved there was no Yoseikan Aikido schools around and the others ones are fake with people kissing ass and calling everyone master Dan. Those teaching of the basics opened my eyes to how the Key was applied to the body...thus rolling around in BJJ I know how to apply the moves far better then most my classmates. I also was able to pick up the MT much faster cause of the basics it showed (hip is power)in throwing punches and kicks.

The main reason it was the best art of them all is the simple fact....it never stated it. They never said this is the best , we rule and other suck. Also the greats thing I learned from these guys was to walk away the greatest teaching of all.
7/8/09 7:19 PM
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Stronghold
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Edited: 07/08/09 8:56 PM
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Sounds good, PS. Thrown in some ground fighting and a little kickboxing and you got it :)
7/8/09 7:22 PM
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oblongo
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How does Yoseikan compare to other "hard" styles of aikido, such as Yoshinkan?
7/9/09 1:48 PM
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Pson
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oblongo - How does Yoseikan compare to other "hard" styles of aikido, such as Yoshinkan?


Don't know really....Yoseikan you need to use key on any joint locks to move the guy. You do throw them everytime in the line or they stand there til you do. The higher levels do sutemi's to throw people and those are hard throws....much harder then Judo ones. Many students get hurt for the sutemis for they don't understand the speed of the throw.

The founder really loved and enjoyed learning from Kano and it has a lot of Judo in the style. Everything is completed with a pin on the ground or standing. Much more randori then others aikido schools I have seen. Most Aikido schools I have seen if you don't do what the other guy is trying to do (worst tech.) you get kicked out. Half the class is bowing and kissing the masters ass and the student learns nothing but how to try on a Hakuma (sp?).

I have seen videos and heard great things about Yosinkan (japan police train this I think), but I don't think you guys do many judo throws?????
7/9/09 8:53 PM
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Stronghold
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Sounds cool. I've heard Mits Yamashita combined Yosinkan and BJJ, too as have a few Aiki guys.

But, I actually want to study yoseikan... good luck finding that in Dallas though.
7/11/09 3:04 AM
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cammo
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Edited: 07/11/09 3:07 AM
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I studied Aikikai Aikido for over 4 years and moved to BJJ. I enjoy Aikido alot and it's a great art. One thing that I have tried to start transferring from my Aikido to BJJ is engaging the hips. My Aikido teachers all had really "connected" and strong hips. Like the hips initiate and control all movement rather than the arms or legs. At the higher levels I see BJJ as a way of doing this on the ground. Still, I notice quite alot of BJJer's muscle techniqe to get a tap but I guess in a way that is part of the excitement of BJJ training. In any case, both are awesome arts and the most important thing I think is the students attitude and quality of the teacher.
7/13/09 8:41 AM
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Pson
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Stronghold - Sounds cool. I've heard Mits Yamashita combined Yosinkan and BJJ, too as have a few Aiki guys.

But, I actually want to study yoseikan... good luck finding that in Dallas though.


Yeah its very small and only in Austin TX.
8/3/09 1:07 AM
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shen
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Edited: 08/03/09 1:27 AM
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Below is an interview with Mits. The interviewer sounds like a typical grappling-phobic "Aikido guy", but it talks about Mits whole history

He was ahead of his time in terms of cross-training. Honestly, I'm not sure why he isn't more famous.I met him once, he is a TRUE Martial Artist of the highest standard.

http://www.aikiweb.hit.bg/mits_yamashita_se.htm
8/3/09 9:16 AM
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Stronghold
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Thx, shen. I think I read that article 10 years ago but it still holds true today. It's like I already wrote about my San Soo master tapping out the huge wrestler via wrist locks on the mat while wrestling him; being well rounded and doing something your opponent's never seen before is a great advantage!
8/3/09 1:42 PM
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Stronghold
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This has already been covered. If you are high up in a traditional art, you are really pushed to not add stuff and break the ethnic or country lines. Only 40 years ago most Chinese living in America were not allowed to teach non-Chinese kung fu. That's not that long ago.
8/4/09 3:33 AM
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laqueus
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MasterofDeath - you would think more mma guys would know that though. Esp after being exposed by Machida. How come all of them are still stuck in their own little bubble of styles without ever trying new ones?


They're not. Nick Diaz was fighting in an unorthodox, more TKD/Karate fashion, since before Machida hooked up with Inoki. There's certainly a majority of fighters who do Muay Thai/BJJ/Wrestling/Boxing and nothing else, but saying they were exposed by Machida when plenty of fighters were incorporating what he's bringing to the table before he was even in contention is TMAsturbatory.
8/4/09 1:19 PM
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Stronghold
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Ueshiba learned karate, JJ, fencing, wrestling, some kung fu, etc. But, try being a high up at Hombu and adding your own stuff. The inventor of Yoseikan style says he was kicked out for doing that.
8/4/09 3:48 PM
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Pson
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Stronghold - Ueshiba learned karate, JJ, fencing, wrestling, some kung fu, etc. But, try being a high up at Hombu and adding your own stuff. The inventor of Yoseikan style says he was kicked out for doing that.


He never said that at all. Ueshiba handed out two honor titles to teach whatever style of Aikido and the one was to Minoru Mochizuki. He was not kicked out for this, he broke off to start his own school with Ueshiba blessings.
8/4/09 6:18 PM
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laqueus
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MasterofDeath - well Im talking about the posters who post here on mma.tv and train mma, they are incredibly negative hyper critical and xenophobic. They even hate Savate in general and jkd.


not at all. I haven't seen much xenophobia or criticism from green names of other styles.
8/5/09 5:01 AM
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laqueus
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You don't have a very consistent argument.
8/5/09 9:19 AM
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Stronghold
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"Boxing and punching in mma is completely different"

True I've found. The heavily padded gloves promote SHITTY punching technique for the non-glove wearer. Even Mike Tyson broke some bones in his hand when he got into a real fight (yes, the pinky and ring finger bones).

I also think learning to fight in a padded ring doesn't translate perfectly into fighting on concrete. I did a lot of pancrase and the 1 minute stand up rule we used (if we were stuck on the ground and no progress was being made) was really helpful in giving us a mindset to be more explosive and try to finish or dominate; just surviving wasn't enough and isn't all that realistic for 'real' fighting (so I'm told by brawlers anyway).

In that sense I'd think that if aiki is trained realistically and your opponent isn't up on his locks and throws, it might be a great advantage. I learned a few hapkido tricks to trap arms and hands and they could work, but getting good enough with them to rely on them would've taken a long time and that's time better spent on leg kicks, blocking, takedowns, and submissions drills, imo.
But, then I have the advantage of being big and pretty strong.
8/5/09 11:29 AM
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FlashGordon2002
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"Yoseikan you need to use key on any joint locks to move the guy."

--------------------

Don't you mean "ki"?
8/5/09 12:24 PM
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Stronghold
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Edited: 08/05/09 12:24 PM
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Uh, no. A lock is not a lock unless it's 'keyed' to something like the ground, your waist, etc.
8/5/09 3:17 PM
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Pson
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FlashGordon2002 - "Yoseikan you need to use key on any joint locks to move the guy."

--------------------

Don't you mean "ki"?


Yes that is what I meant.
8/5/09 3:51 PM
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e. kaye
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 Aikido gets a bad rap as do many TMAs.    But the truth is that the problem is simply that there are very few people that know how to make it work and worse, very few that can teach it that way.

A lot of people are not going to want to hear this, but in the case of Aikido one of the guys teaching it in an effective way was Steven Seagal.   While he holds high rank with the Hombu, his own personal expression of Aikido was more like Aikijujitsu. 

My friend in NYC, Jim Berkeley is one of Steven's three BBs.    Jim is scary good and can make his stuff work in a very painful fashion.
8/5/09 5:07 PM
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laqueus
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Stronghold - "Boxing and punching in mma is completely different"

True I've found. The heavily padded gloves promote SHITTY punching technique for the non-glove wearer. Even Mike Tyson broke some bones in his hand when he got into a real fight (yes, the pinky and ring finger bones).


Yeah, I wonder about relying on hand wraps and gloves to protect the hands. I can see logic in using good gloves to prevent cuts for sparring, but if you're doing heavy bag work, you should have the technique to throw a punch without any wraps or gloves and not break anything.


I also think learning to fight in a padded ring doesn't translate perfectly into fighting on concrete. I did a lot of pancrase and the 1 minute stand up rule we used (if we were stuck on the ground and no progress was being made) was really helpful in giving us a mindset to be more explosive and try to finish or dominate; just surviving wasn't enough and isn't all that realistic for 'real' fighting (so I'm told by brawlers anyway).


Wouldn't that rule get some people stalling more?

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