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PhilosophyGround >> Free Will vs. Determinism


11/17/06 5:32 PM
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Polaris
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Edited: 17-Nov-06
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I have to do a debate in favor of Free Will, and Im kind of having a difficult time here. It seems like every article I read on the subject is in support of determinism, and even though I don't really agree with it, it is a tough theory to make solid arguments against. Anyone have some ideas?
11/17/06 10:28 PM
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winnidon
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Edited: 17-Nov-06
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There was an excellent thread about this very topic not too long ago. Look for that
11/19/06 9:26 AM
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Indrek R.
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Edited: 19-Nov-06
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We are SO over that topic :) Seriously check the thread. There were over 100 posts there.
11/19/06 2:47 PM
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Polaris
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Edited: 19-Nov-06
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Yeah, I feel like a jackass now after seeing that thread, on the first page no less.
12/20/06 3:41 AM
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Indrek R.
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Edited: 20-Dec-06
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Yeah right :) Some argumentative support to your bold assertions would be nice...
12/24/06 5:01 AM
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Indrek R.
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Edited: 24-Dec-06
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You should really take an intro course of metaphysics...
12/28/06 4:44 PM
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yomamafool
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Edited: 28-Dec-06
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free will is real

free will and determinism exhist together in harmony

you cannot have one without the other

 

12/28/06 4:54 PM
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yomamafool
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Edited: 28-Dec-06
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"We are only the sum total of expierences, and they shape how we operate, and the decisions we make"

we use free will to make decisions, but without determinism there would be no decisions to make

1/2/07 11:10 AM
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hekster
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Edited: 02-Jan-07 11:54 AM
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Attack cause and effect to argue for free will. Look at quantum particles and neurology. http://www.tir.org/metapsy/jom/022_have.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Process_philosophy
1/5/07 1:38 PM
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FudoMyoo
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Edited: 05-Jan-07
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"Attack cause and effect to argue for free will. Look at quantum particles and neurology."

how would that help?
1/5/07 3:25 PM
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hekster
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Edited: 05-Jan-07
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how would that help? well if determinism dilineates the both the choices we have to chose from and the experience that we employ to make the choices, then we have no free will. If some other process other than determinism comes into play for a decision than that leaves room for free will. Look up 'prehending'.
1/5/07 4:31 PM
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FudoMyoo
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Edited: 05-Jan-07
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I couldn´t find the word "prehending" in my dictionaries, what does it mean?
1/5/07 6:39 PM
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hekster
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Edited: 05-Jan-07
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http://www.tir.org/metapsy/jom/022_have.html
9/16/07 4:53 PM
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thesleeper
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Edited: 16-Sep-07
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"Unfortunatley cause and effect holds true in the macro world." We discover cause and effect by analysis. Analysis is necessarily deterministic. Therefore if you are going to argue for free will, you have to undermine the foundations of cause and effect in analysis.
10/7/07 10:18 PM
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killacox
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Edited: 07-Oct-07
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what about when we know the cause, know the effect, but know how to change the effect so its different?
10/11/07 2:47 PM
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killacox
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Edited: 11-Oct-07
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sorry i dont type for the lowest common demoninator's understanding
10/11/07 9:23 PM
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killacox
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Edited: 11-Oct-07
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youre welcome to reenter them and enlighten me
10/12/07 12:27 AM
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thesleeper
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Edited: 12-Oct-07
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I think he is saying that your enlightenment would take up too much of his time.
3/16/08 11:55 PM
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cycklops
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Edited: 16-Mar-08
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Anyone read Vonnegut's "Timequake" (I think that's the name)

Premise is you have to live your life over from a certain age only you don't have free will to 'choose.' You live the exact same life kinda from within looking out, knowing exactly what you're gonna do next but the inability to change it.

 

5/30/08 12:46 AM
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thesleeper
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Giddens, Structuration theory. Problem Solved.
5/31/08 4:19 AM
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Indrek R.
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If it only were so easy...
1/6/09 3:18 PM
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2JupitersTooMany
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I read Timquake, and Vonnegut is my favorite author, but I think he's confused about the issue.

The must influential book I've read about determinism was Jonathan Edwards' Freedom of the Will.

Most conversations on the subject are confused because of a failure to be very precise about basic definitions. My opinion is that "solutions" to the problem of causality as it relates to human choices are difficult because they're absurd, and that people go to lengths to embrace novel absurdities more because they hate the consequences of determinism than because they've made a genuine discovery about the true nature of things.

I think people would do well to just rework their definition of the word "freedom" as it relates to choices. Perfectly caused choices can still be considered free in the sense that they proceed naturally from a person's own state of being. Because of that, I'm comfortable with the idea moral responsibility.
4/18/09 12:15 PM
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HoldYerGround
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Already In Use - This thread makes my head hurt!


Here is an easy way to think of it.

Who you are is based on two things: how you are born, and the enviroment you live in.

Since you do not choose what happens to you at birth, that is also a product of your enviroment.

Therefore, enviroment is 100% responsible for who you are. Who you are determines what decisions you make.

Determinism accomplished.

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