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DantheWolfMan UnderGround >> Self defense for dog attack?


12/6/06 10:58 AM
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franklyn
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Edited: 06-Dec-06
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 1474
 
I am looking for advice on self defense from dog attacks. I live in a country which has ferral dogs a small percentage of these animals have rabies. Does anyone have a link, article, or good advice? A few days ago I was confronted by a small pack of ferral dogs, I was crossing over their territory. Only the lead dog was big enough to engage me. The pack all started barking. I clapped my hands and said something like "hey! hey!". The leader planted himself two feet in front of me and went into a full frenzy. It was growling and showing teeth in a highly aggressive mannner. After a long moment, I went into my frenzy, swearing and throwing whatever objects were handy. I nailed the leader cleanly with a milk crate. The dogs ran away crying with tails between legs. A mixture of relief and disgust flushed over me... it was all bluff. I want expert advice on how to handle aggressive ferral dogs.
12/10/06 3:45 AM
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franklyn
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Edited: 10-Dec-06
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 1487
I was reading a little about dog attacks online. The best tip was not to struggle when it bites. Say a dog bites your arm and you try to pull your arm out, the skin will get all ripped up, you end up causing more damage. If you relaxe your arm all you get are the puncture wounds. My natural instinct would be to pull my arm out hard as I could, which is completely wrong. Also, I read you can try shoving your hand down the dogs throat, this would be a situation where the dog already has hold of your hand. There is naturual resistance for pulling your hand out, but not pushing in deeper. Supposedly you could wedge it down deep enough to choke the dog. I would not want to be the one testing this in a real situation.
12/14/06 1:32 PM
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JasonL
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Edited: 14-Dec-06
Member Since: 04/15/2002
Posts: 1549
Push your arm into the mouth and Bite the dogs ear. Thats what pack leader dogs do to teach the other dogs a lesson. That hurts them bad. They are weak in the Paws, eyes, ears, throat. Better off thumbing them in the eyes, biting their feet, ears and use your thumb to stick it in their throat, just like you would do a human.
12/22/06 10:53 AM
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ilk
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Edited: 22-Dec-06
Member Since: 12/17/2005
Posts: 224
12/31/06 7:25 PM
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BigDaddyPerkins
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Edited: 31-Dec-06
Member Since: 11/05/2004
Posts: 696
If you act like prey you will become prey. There are a lot of non verbal signals that dogs read off of you. Best to look into some reading on these areas. But remember they have 4 legs you have two and if you run from them you have classified yourself as prey. If you know there is no chance of evasion, become the predator. Dogs know they are not the top of the food chain, and remeber going at them is a very last resort. Your best bet is to go online to some dog trainer sights and ask their forum. Do a google search on Schutzhund, and find a forum there lots of info out there if you look. My personal advice is to work on your marksmanship skill with feral dogs.
3/1/07 8:09 PM
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JasonL
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Edited: 01-Mar-07
Member Since: 04/15/2002
Posts: 1590
Obviously, you could try to crush its windpipe, but what about blood chokes? Do dogs have the same basic carotid structure as humans do? Dude, every feel the neck area of a large dog? Their muscles are strong as hell. If you end up lying on your back trying to choke the dog, you can choke him, but holding him there is another story. Their necks are almost as big as their heads, making it harder to hold onto. Human heads are bigger and our necks are much smaller, much easier to hold onto. I used to wrestle my pit bulls when I was a kid, extremley hard to keep done to choke.
3/2/07 5:49 PM
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JasonL
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Edited: 02-Mar-07
Member Since: 04/15/2002
Posts: 1593
Yes
3/29/07 1:29 AM
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ahlong
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Edited: 29-Mar-07 12:38 AM
Member Since: 11/24/2004
Posts: 44
I've been thinking about this topic for a while. They say that dogs can "smell fear" - obviously fear is not scented - however you like to term it though, dogs know when you're afraid, and it sometimes makes them more aggressive. As Big Daddy Perkins said, act like prey and you become prey. My question to everyone is this: why does "acting like prey" automatically turn the dog (or others) into predators? It's not that cut and dry. Chances are you won't become prey (in terms of people) even if you act like it, because most people aren't sociopaths. That's the BTS 3%er concept, or to flip it, 97%er concept. A lot of dogs won't attack you despite the fear that you may have. But then, a lot may also. Don't take anything for granted. Understanding the BTS Fear Management System allows us to understand why some people become afraid of "man's best friend". F.E.A.R. - False Evidence Appearing Real / False Expectations Appearing Real. What could someone be visualising that would make them afraid of a dog? If you were to visualise that dog wagging it's tail happily and walking on by or coming up to you to be petted, would you be afraid? Probably not - but that depends on your belief system, which will influence what you visualise. Getting back to dogs "smelling fear" - a more reasonable explanation could be that fear may affect your physiology - your physiology affects the rapport you have with people, and animals also. Anthony Robbins' modelling concepts to enhance rapport include concepts on changing your physiology to suit. So if your physiology is sending out that vibe of fear - a negative vibe, the dog's intuition is going to pick up on that, i.e. they've "smelt it". Preventing the dog attack starts with changing your belief systems about dogs, therefore what you visualise and what you expect to happen when you come across a dog. If you believe the dog is going to maul you, you'll likely visualise that, and therefore expect it to happen. So guess what? It's probably more likely to happen."Belief makes it so". Of course even with the most positive outlook and attitude towards dogs, there are your so-called "sociopath" dogs - Pit Bulls for example. Regardless of my attitude towards dogs generally, I don't trust Pit Bulls. Pit Bulls have mauled children who were probably just thinking "oh look at the doggie" and tried to pat it. Profiling as to what kinds of dogs are most likely to attack will help you in advance. As for physical tactics, best consult dog experts. Just my 2 RMB, Trevor Wilcox
PDR Team
3/30/07 9:52 AM
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Tansu 3D
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Edited: 30-Mar-07
Member Since: 04/13/2006
Posts: 161
2 people I train with have had dog encounters. One was with a pit bull. It charged my friend, he waited in a fighting stance and kicked it dead in the chest when it got into kicking range and sent it rolling. The dog came for a 2nd charge - he kicked it again. After the 2nd kick the dog retreated back to its fenced area. Keep in mind this man is a highly trained fighter and very adept at timing, distance, and kicking. The 2nd friend, also a highly trained fighter, had 2 dogs of his own that were fighting. He choked one of them down, not out, but almost. This might be bad choice against a pack of dogs however. He apparently trusted that the 2nd dog wouldn't attack him as he choked the first because it was his own dog. This is not something you could assume with a pack of dogs.
6/11/07 5:21 PM
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ironmongoose
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Edited: 11-Jun-07
Member Since: 04/17/2002
Posts: 4246
A lot of this doesn't apply to feral dogs, but is good general reading for dog attacks: http://www.personalprotectionsystems.ca/Woof%20Woof.doc
7/1/07 10:57 AM
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BigDaddyPerkins
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Edited: 01-Jul-07
Member Since: 11/05/2004
Posts: 719
Trevor, Dogs don't smell fear. A dogs form of communication in its pack is through a form of body language, small things we do not notice are a form of communication for dogs. For example a simple mistake people make is when they smile at a dog and say nice doggie, the smile is aggresive showing the teeth, so you can see where the mix up comes in. Dogs attack for a few reasons, the two main reasons are either prey drive or defense drive, prey is easy to understand, quick movements, running, etc. they chase the prey, defense drive is when the dog feels he has no other choice than to defend itself by biting. I don't feel I should cloud up any more of Tony's board with dog discussions but once again there are many dog trainer sights that can answer these kinds of questions. Please don't rate pit bulls as a bad breed, the type of people that own them are generally the root of the problem. Their is no selective breeding, and many of the times the dogs are not trained. There are worse breeds, it is just the pit bull is more capable when it attacks. Imagine if you fed steroids to a jack russell, they would be against the law to own. LOL I myself am a doberman owner and fight this stygma all the time.
8/13/07 9:46 AM
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WizzleTeats
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Edited: 13-Aug-07
Member Since: 06/07/2006
Posts: 2281
"Of course even with the most positive outlook and attitude towards dogs, there are your so-called "sociopath" dogs - Pit Bulls for example. Regardless of my attitude towards dogs generally, I don't trust Pit Bulls. Pit Bulls have mauled children who were probably just thinking "oh look at the doggie" and tried to pat it. Profiling as to what kinds of dogs are most likely to attack will help you in advance. As for physical tactics, best consult dog experts." No offense, but applying human psychology and 'rules" to a dog is incorrect as well as potentially dangerous. There is no such thing as a "sociopathic" dog, only dogs with higher or lower prey drives and dominance. In truth, most children who are bitten by dogs are bitten by their family dog, and the worst bites come not from the media favorite "killer dog" (never mind that in many cases the dogs reported on aren't pit bulls at all) but from smaller breeds like cocker spaniels and small terrier breeds. Why? Well, terriers and spaniels tend to be very dominant and have high prey drives. The owners of these dogs also tend to allow dominant behavior since the dogs aren't very big. However, both breeds are right at eye level for small children. Eye contact with a dominant dog can be perceived as a challenge, and the dog will sometimes do what dogs do in that situation: snap at the other dog's face and neck in an attempt to make the other dog back down. Of course when the other "dog" is a 40 lb kid the result is facial stitches. Pit bulls are far less likely to attact than German Shepards, Rotties, and Dobies. Even Malamutes and Huskies are more of a human bite risk. There are a number of reasons for this, but I'll give you the "quick and dirty" breakdown. 1.) GSDs, Rotties and Dobies are working dogs that have been adapted to police, protection and guard work for well over 100 years. Human aggression, high intellegence and dominant tendencies were and are intenionally breed into the dogs. 2.) All these dogs are large, very strong, and have powerful jaws. 3.)Most American breeders breed to an AKC standards--meaning temperment and stability take a backseat to looks. Over time this means less stable dogs with more health issues, including poor temperments. "Getting back to dogs "smelling fear" - a more reasonable explanation could be that fear may affect your physiology - your physiology affects the rapport you have with people, and animals also. Anthony Robbins' modelling concepts to enhance rapport include concepts on changing your physiology to suit. So if your physiology is sending out that vibe of fear - a negative vibe, the dog's intuition is going to pick up on that, i.e. they've "smelt it". Preventing the dog attack starts with changing your belief systems about dogs, therefore what you visualise and what you expect to happen when you come across a dog. If you believe the dog is going to maul you, you'll likely visualise that, and therefore expect it to happen. So guess what? It's probably more likely to happen."Belief makes it so". " Your body language is what sets them off, not your beliefs about dogs or your visualization of an outcome, although that can play a role. However, that's not the be-all and end-all of the issue. Dog psychology is actually fairly complex and very dependant on the breed and the situation. A few good general rules are: 1.) Do not make direct eye contact with a dog or get face-to-face with a dog you do not know very, very well. Standing over a dog, to close in front of it, touching the sides, top, or back of it's head/neck without letting it get comfortable with you first is a very bad idea. My gf did the typical "Oh what a cute dog you are" thing to a bullmastiff and got face-to-face with it; if she didn't have good reflexes she'd be missing a chunk of her face now. 2.) Do not make fast jerky or erratic movements around a dog you don't know. If a dog has a high prey drive this basically says "Jump up at this moving target!" in big bold letters. 3.) DO NOT RUN. Ever. You are better off facing down a dog in almost all cases and the dog WILL catch you if you don't have huge headstart. Back away slowly, without staring at the dog and move away at an angle. Look down at the ground slightly and turn away a bit while moving back and at angle. Unless a dog is sick or extremely aggressive it will not come after you. 90% of all dog bites are due to human misunderstanding of a dog's main drives. Dogs don't bite people for shits and giggles. In almost all cases the human failed to understand warning signs or overeacted to a simple dominance display. Most people will back away from an aggressive dog while continuing to make direct eye contact and showing fear, which basically is a combination of a challenge AND showing submissiveness. This is about the worst combination of signals you can give since it's telling the aggressive dog "Hey, fuck you pal. But, I'm a pussy. Come kick my ass"
11/8/07 12:32 AM
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JasonKeaton
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Edited: 08-Nov-07
Member Since: 03/12/2002
Posts: 2471
Guys, Ask you local mailman! Seriously, they have good tips
11/9/07 3:58 PM
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BigDaddyPerkins
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Edited: 09-Nov-07
Member Since: 11/05/2004
Posts: 747
Jason you know I'm not the mailman.
5/2/09 10:00 PM
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lloydmtz
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Edited: 05/02/09 10:02 PM
Member Since: 10/12/02
Posts: 46
I was "attacked" and bitten by a Bull Terrier a week ago. I was told by the owners, whose house I was at, that the dog didn't like males. They had the dog in a cage so I didn't think anything about it.

I went out the front door, into the front yard which was fenced in, and didn't realize that the owners had let the dog loose in the front yard. I didn't realize the dog was out running free until I had gotten halfway across the yard while heading for the gate.In an instant I "remembered" and had one of those "oh sh*t" moments when I saw the dog. Next thing I know the dog is heading towards me, he took a bite at my stomach, and luckily for me I tucked my stomach back and instead of biting into my he sliced me.

Then he comes back again and I didn't realize it until afterwards, but he tore the pocket of my cargo shorts, which made me realize he got close enough a second time to bite me.The dog came back about 2 to 3 more times and each time I stomped my foot and using the hands up posture and the "bad dog" tone of voice and yelling "no" everytime he started to come close again, kept him off of me. Each time he backed off until the owners (who were also outside but they were arguing with their neighbors) finally saw me and ran over and took the dog in the house.

Afterwards, it was hard to talk because I realized I had strained my vocal chords from yelling so hard and loudly at the dog. I also realized that I didnt have time to call for help because I knew that if I let up for a second that the dog would have had the time to bite me again. It was my voice that kept him away.

After the 2nd bite attempt on my shorts I finally tried looking around for something but there wasnt anything to use to defend myself with.I couldn't run because my escape routes were too far away based on the proximity of the threat (dog). And to be honest I think it crossed my mind only for a second to try and get away. That dog was so relentless that I didnt have time to let up with my vocal commands.

Afterwards, I realized that I had actually been bitten and that the dog had torn a complete hole out of my t-shirt. I also realized after I was safely in my car that I had a screw driver in my back pocket but I didn't "think" about it at the time. In fact I wasn't even aware I had one in my back pocket.
I never thought once about kicking or hitting the dog or putting my arms up as a shield. Why? Because I didn't want that damn dog to bite me! Funny thing is even though I was already bitten I knew that if I extended any of my limbs that the dog was going to bite the h*ll out of anything I extended towards him and I would've had a lot more serious injuries inflicted on myself. The fact that I wasnt bitten a second time proved the value of the tactic.

I learned a couple lessons from the incident and the biggest was never trust anyone to look out for you. Thats your job. I had thought the dog was still caged up inside the house. I never saw or was never told by the frickin owners that the dog was loose in the front yard.I walked right out there and left myself in a bad situation.

Once I got on the road and got home I contacted Animal Control. Now a week later my wounds are healing. And never did go for medical treatment though I could have. I just didnt feel like I needed to. Like I said I was able to tuck away from the initial bite. IF the dog had sank its teeth into me I would most definitely have gone to the Hospital. But I thank my martial arts training for giving me the timing and distancing to react properly. And to my understanding of self-defense tactics and verbal commands that just kicked right in and kept a bad situation from getting any worse!

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