UnderGround Forums
 

PoliticalGround >> CIA Iraq Had No WMDs in Fall 2002


12/21/06 10:22 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Pretjah
772 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 21-Dec-06
Member Since: 04/23/2002
Posts: 20588
hobbes you've missed a few key points in your analogy

1. I give Seemore a gun to defend himself against his neighbours, who I wouldn't mind seeing dead.

1A. seemore takes this gun and uses it to design more guns for himself.


2. I later think: "Seemore's got a gun which he might give to his neighbours to shoot me with or he might make more and give them to his neighbors or others who want to shoot me with AND Seemore has already shot someof our friends and has threatened to do so again! he better get rid of it or I'll shoot him."

3. hubris searches Seemore and tells me that he can't find a gun.  (this is an easy one cause everyone knows hubris is a moran!)

4. Information(can we really trust information), who is one of Seemore's friends in this example, comes to me secretly and tells me that Seemore got rid of his gun PROGRAM. Information wants special treatment when I take Seemore down.

5. I tell everyone that Seemore is lying about getting rid of the gun and shoot him in the head so he's not a threat to me anymore.

12/21/06 10:25 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
jellyman
7 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 21-Dec-06
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 18176
6 Then it turns out Seemore didn't have any guns, just some drawings.
12/21/06 10:53 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Hobbes
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 21-Dec-06
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 14972
OK Seemore the OG has had enough of your threats and anti social behavior! You're a threat to your fellow OGers and must surrender or I'll come to shoot you. You have 3 seconds. 1 2 3 OK, see you in a few minutes. **gets bean bag chair ready to move into Seemore's house, makes dinner plans to eat Seemores food, devises plot to sell Seemore's cookies**
12/21/06 11:46 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
SirPrize
13 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 21-Dec-06
Member Since: 10/04/2002
Posts: 1276
"*** Since Iraq did not have an active WMD program in 2002, does that mean that Iraq did not have any WMD in 2002? *** IRAQ DID NOT HAVE A WEAPONS PROGRAM IN 2002 DOES THAT MAKE YOU FEEL BETTER." "I'm betting that you cannot answer with a simple "yes" or "no". " Yeah. That's what I thought. You're 14 words over. ------------- "The whole oven logic is lame" Ok. Then throw that out. "just face it they hadnt had a program in years, everyone knows this." I agree 100%. I am not disputing this. On this, we agree. (Surprising, eh? ;) ) "I think Hobbes, Hawker and I are not denying they had weapons at one time, were just denying they had them when we invaded." Again, I actually agree about this. On this, we also agree. (Surprising, eh? ;) ) "That is why we invaded, not because they had ovens, but because the cookies were there and made and ready to eat." Yet again, I agree. So, that's three things that we actually agree on.
12/21/06 12:51 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
CPracer16
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 21-Dec-06
Member Since: 06/06/2006
Posts: 1910
We were told that we were going to war with Iraq because they had weapons of mass detruction and that we knew where they were. <object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/6EITCIgia5c"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param></object>
12/21/06 1:02 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
CPracer16
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 21-Dec-06
Member Since: 06/06/2006
Posts: 1911
This is proof that we the American people, were lied to and thrown into an unjust war. It has killed thousands of our own people, it has scared people for life and left thousands more disabled. How many Iraqi's have died over this lie? I personally care about our people, sorry the Iraqi's had it bad with Saddam, its much worse now anyways. President Bush and his cabinet need to be impeached and also charged with war crimes under the Geneva Convention.
12/21/06 2:38 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
yomamafool
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 21-Dec-06
Member Since: 12/09/2002
Posts: 5948

shadow war between the euro and the dollar

look into it yo

12/21/06 3:35 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
SirPrize
13 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 21-Dec-06
Member Since: 10/04/2002
Posts: 1280
""I think Hobbes, Hawker and I are not denying they had weapons at one time, were just denying they had them when we invaded." Again, I actually agree about this. On this, we also agree. (Surprising, eh? ;) ) " I am basing my conclusion that Iraq did not have WMD when we invaded on the fact that we have not found any WMD so far. (and we probably never will) Most likely, that is what most other people have based their conclusion on, as well. You cannot, however, base the conclusion on the fact that Iraq's WMD program was not actually *active* at the time we invaded. You have to base the conclusion on something else (the fact that we have not found any WMD). That is all I am saying. That is all I have *ever* tried to say in this thread.
12/22/06 9:03 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
CPracer16
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 22-Dec-06
Member Since: 06/06/2006
Posts: 1914
Was anyone able to watch the 60 minutes program? Did they air this interview?
12/27/06 11:55 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
CPracer16
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 27-Dec-06
Member Since: 06/06/2006
Posts: 1926
"What's the point of all this? The government lied in order to get the masses to follow their lead. Governments have been doing this since the beginning of civilization. Is this supposed to be some surprise?" No it is not a suprise, it is the point that it is illegal. It is grounds for impeachement!
12/27/06 12:05 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
CPracer16
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 27-Dec-06
Member Since: 06/06/2006
Posts: 1927
Owned what? Why would anyone try and own this thread?
12/27/06 12:32 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
SirPrize
13 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 27-Dec-06 12:34 PM
Member Since: 10/04/2002
Posts: 1357
"damn hawker owned this thread up and fucking down" "can I have his cookies?" Yeah. Owned!!! How can argue with that? ** rolls eyes ** "At least you're willing to admit that there were no WMD's & no WMD programs. For some reason though, you still think you're being logical. How twisted of you..." I don't think you really know what logic is. What I'm saying is that one of these facts does not lead conclusively to the other fact. You do not see that "A does not lead conclusively B". "no WMD programs" does not lead conclusively to "no WMD's", because they could have had WMD's from before the program was shut down. If you cannot understand that simple logic, then there is no reason for me to keep trying to explain it to you. YOU are the one who is arguing just to argue. I give up.
12/27/06 12:35 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
jellyman
7 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 27-Dec-06
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 18219
'"no WMD programs" does not lead conclusively to "no WMD's", because they could have had WMD's from before the program was shut down.' True, but as has been pointed out, poison gases and suchlike have a limited shelf life, so if there was no program or manufacture within a certain time-frame, it means the old stuff becomes non-functional.
12/27/06 1:18 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
SirPrize
13 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 27-Dec-06
Member Since: 10/04/2002
Posts: 1360
"True, but as has been pointed out, poison gases and suchlike have a limited shelf life, so if there was no program or manufacture within a certain time-frame, it means the old stuff becomes non-functional." See??? THAT is what I'm talking about. *That* is a logical argument that gets you from A to B. Try this: There was no active WMD program in Iraq for x-years. WMD become non-functional after x-years. Therefore, there were no *functional* WMD in Iraq. This is a logically-consistent argument. This, however, was *not* the original argument. That was the point I was trying to make - you need *something else* to get from A to B. (Thanks, Jellyman.) BTW, I stressed "functional", because there still could have been WMD in Iraq that were "non-functional". Perhaps this is a minor point, as well, but since this was also not part of the original argument, I thought it worth mentioning. (The original argument did not distinguish between "functional" and "non-functional" WMD.)
12/27/06 2:05 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
SirPrize
13 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 27-Dec-06
Member Since: 10/04/2002
Posts: 1365
Yeah... well... What can I say? Jellyman saved the thread. :)
12/27/06 2:37 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
SirPrize
13 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 27-Dec-06
Member Since: 10/04/2002
Posts: 1366
"I get it...however..." Then why are you still arguing? "THERE WERE NO WMD'S & NO WMD PROGRAMS. YOU SAID SO YOURSELF." Agreed. What's your point? I don't believe I ever claimed that there *were* WMDs when we invaded Iraq, just that you need more to base that conclusion on than an active program. (The CIA report is not the smoking gun that people were implying.) Instead, I am basing my belief on the fact that we have not found any WMD since we invaded. As Jellyman pointed out, WMDs have a shelf-life. So, I am factoring that *and* the lack of an active WMD program into my belief. Apparently, you are basing your belief on the fact that Iraq did not have an active WMD program. That seems to be all of the evidence you think you need. I don't think that is enough, but I can see I will never convince you that you need more information.
12/27/06 2:58 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
SirPrize
13 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 27-Dec-06
Member Since: 10/04/2002
Posts: 1369
"You, the neocons, and everyone else who supports this war have had years to find something tangible. I have yet to find any evidence to justify the war." This may be true, but it has nothing to do with the argument. I said nothing about justifying the war. You keep going off on tangents. "What, other than cookies or possibilites that A does not = B?" Like other facts. Like the fact that we did not actually find any functional WMD. Like the fact that WMDs have a shelf-life. Like the fact that Iraq did not have a shelf-life for x-number of years, which exceeds the shelf-life of the WMD. If you only take a single fact and then jump to a conclusion, then you are doing the same thing that you accuse the neocons of doing.
12/27/06 4:04 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
SirPrize
13 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 27-Dec-06 04:08 PM
Member Since: 10/04/2002
Posts: 1371
No. Being a narrow-minded nut-rider who only gets part of the the truth before jumping to conclusions that support his own agenda. Then, if someone calls them on it, they call that other person names, whether it is "unpatriotic" or "neocon". It's the same tactic. It is used to try to stifle real debate.
12/27/06 4:26 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
SirPrize
13 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 27-Dec-06 04:30 PM
Member Since: 10/04/2002
Posts: 1375
Tangent. Your inability to stay on topic is laughable. When did I ever attempt justify the war in Iraq in this thread? Show me. Let me help you out, "I'm not going to go back and read x-number of pages... cookies & unicorns..."
12/27/06 4:33 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
SirPrize
13 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 27-Dec-06 04:35 PM
Member Since: 10/04/2002
Posts: 1376
LOL. Yeah. That's what I thought. How can I argue with *that* logic? ** rolls eyes **
12/27/06 5:12 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Pretjah
772 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 27-Dec-06
Member Since: 04/23/2002
Posts: 20628
www.2la.org/syria/iraq-wmd.php
12/27/06 5:12 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
SirPrize
13 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 27-Dec-06
Member Since: 10/04/2002
Posts: 1377
What's the point? You never stay on topic, anyway. Nor will you answer simple "yes or no" questions. What you will do is harp on an analogy that you claim is ridiculous, rather than address the actual argument at hand. That's all you have. Since the cookie analogy annoyed people so much, I told people to throw that out LONG ago. It's funny that *you* are the one who won't let it go. BTW, you apparently went back and counted my posts. Did you find where I attempted to justify the war in Iraq?
12/27/06 5:13 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Pretjah
772 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 27-Dec-06
Member Since: 04/23/2002
Posts: 20629
http://www.nysun.com/article/26514
12/27/06 5:14 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
EVILYOSHIDA
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 27-Dec-06
Member Since: 12/03/2003
Posts: 10916
are you guys FUCKING STUPID? There is only one reason why the US went to war with IRaq. To preserve Dollar hegemony. Saddam wanted to trade his oil in Euros, which was the ULTIMATE WEAPON OF MASS DESTRUCTION. get your facts straight men.
12/27/06 5:24 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
SirPrize
13 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 27-Dec-06
Member Since: 10/04/2002
Posts: 1378
Hi, Evil. Sadly, there is probably some truth in what you say. I am not disputing this. Unfortunately, that is not what Hugo and I are debating. Actually, I believe Hugo and I are actually debating *different* things, as well. Me: The fact that Iraq did not have an active WMD program does not mean that they did not actually have WMDs. Hugo: I have no idea. Cookies... unicorns... anything but what I try to talk about. When two people argue about different topics, it is no wonder that they cannot agree.

Reply Post

You must log in to post a reply. Click here to login.