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TMA UnderGround >> What do you get from TMA?


12/22/06 3:51 PM
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Allinthefootwork
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Edited: 22-Dec-06
Member Since: 11/16/2004
Posts: 66
 
I'm interested in what you feel TMA have to offer. As this is an MMA site, I presume everyone here is familiar with MMA and what it has shown, but you also have an interest in TMAs. So what do you feel you get from them? A workout? Culture enrichment? Techniques that are outlawed in NHB? I'm not a hater, I dabble in trad arts myself, but I am just interested in why you continue training
12/23/06 3:21 AM
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SacWerneck
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Edited: 23-Dec-06
Member Since: 08/02/2006
Posts: 3286
GirlGround Team Sexy
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12/23/06 12:49 PM
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Bunkou
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Edited: 23-Dec-06 12:49 PM
Member Since: 12/16/2004
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I'll bite. I've done muay thai on and off since I was in Canada in '98. I've done judo, jiu-jitsu and other grappling steady since '96. I currently train at one of Hawai'i's best MMA clubs. I would still go back to Olympic TKD or kyokushin karate in a heart beat. I stay with MMA because my son prefers it and it's often the only time we get to spend together, but given my preference, I'd go to a top rank TKD school. Don't get me wrong. I enjoy MMA, and find it more complete (though not necessarily more practical, as many claim). What I got from TKD (and KyoK) as compared to MMA (caveat: this is all dependent on the gym, of course): - a better workout - a greater variety of effective kicks - a greater sense of camaraderie with fellow students - more fun with the flashy stuff - more established competition circuit - Olympic dreams
12/23/06 3:42 PM
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Allinthefootwork
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Edited: 23-Dec-06
Member Since: 11/16/2004
Posts: 67
Thanks Bunkou Anyone else?
12/23/06 8:08 PM
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GaydarBlane
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Edited: 23-Dec-06
Member Since: 08/13/2003
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It's kind of mindless fun for me as well as relaxation/stress relief.
12/24/06 10:23 AM
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Allinthefootwork
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Edited: 24-Dec-06
Member Since: 11/16/2004
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What about forms? Anyone do them, and if so, what do you think you get from them? I have started doing them for the first time, and I don't 'get it'. But maybe it's my interpretation rather than the content.
12/26/06 9:45 AM
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GaydarBlane
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Edited: 26-Dec-06
Member Since: 08/13/2003
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Forms are good for training the correct "form" (wank wank) of performing techniques. Other than that, they are mindless fun and relaxing. Of course if you ask a straight TMA guy, he will tell you that it's the "same thing" as shadow boxing and that you'll get conditioning benefits from it. It's a catalogue of a styles techniques and it teaches you how to move and fight utilizing that style. I find that largely rubbish.
12/30/06 7:10 AM
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Juninho
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Edited: 30-Dec-06
Member Since: 07/23/2002
Posts: 3758
It's been a couple of years since I stopped doing MMA, and am about to start a 'soft' chinese MA, (maybe tai chi) for the following reasons: 1) to act as a restorative foyle (sp?) to my other activities (o-lifting, climbing, running) 2) to further my knowledge of Chinese/Taoist culture & philosophy 3) to learn an 'art' in the proper meaning of the word 4) to occassionally fly and lay waste to whole towns of bad guys
12/30/06 2:29 PM
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IamLegman
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Edited: 30-Dec-06
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 255
Mostly it was a social club for me of other fantasy wanna be tough guys who could beat anyone's ass who stood in the way or gave me lip. I believed this until I met a 240lbs 3rd dan in Judo who also wrestled in college. Then in the blink of a maki-komi with a smigion of a cross face I reached enlightenment.
12/30/06 7:28 PM
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spc36
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Edited: 30-Dec-06
Member Since: 02/01/2004
Posts: 130
I have several friends who train in TMA. Many of them tried MMA/BJJ/SG but decide just to stay with their TMA. All of them are still training in their TMA, and while they are as healthy or more as they were 15 years ago my body is a train wreck from doing MMA/BJJ/SG. I would be lucky to even train TMA now in my current condition. They are still having fun and each of those guys could take care of themselves in most street encounters, as a matter of fact some of them have. The one thing that I think TMA has a much better grasp on than the current group of MMA guy is the blending of both effectiveness and longevity.
1/3/07 4:30 PM
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GaydarBlane
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Edited: 03-Jan-07
Member Since: 08/13/2003
Posts: 6051
spc, I feel that is more about the mentality in MMA training. I gave it up when I was train wreck from injuries. Years later, I went back with a different mind set. I tap a lot quicker as opposed to waiting until the last possible instant. I also take it much easier and even stop training when an injury pops up. I haven't grappled in a month because my elbow is tweaked a bit from arm bar drills. 7 years ago, I would have said screw it and still have trained grappling multiple times per week. It's tough for competitive individuals that the combat sports attract to throttle down a few levels and even come to a stop when necessary. That said, I do think the risk for injury is higher seeing as there is more contact. I just think the difference is negligible if approached correctly.
1/3/07 6:37 PM
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spc36
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Edited: 03-Jan-07
Member Since: 02/01/2004
Posts: 131
I agree GaydarBlane. Scott Sonnon's material is great. I would strongly suggest Inut-Flow, Prasara, and Clubbels from RMAX.
1/5/07 10:14 AM
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GaydarBlane
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Edited: 05-Jan-07
Member Since: 08/13/2003
Posts: 6057
Thanks for the suggestion. I have quite a bit of Sonnon's material and don't really think it is all it's cracked up to be. I think doing supplemental training intelligently (ie not pushing weight after form breaks down, always doing proper joint ROM drills and stretching, and listenning to your body and not pushing it to a weakenned state, etc) combined with intelligent training with fighting (ie not going all out all the time; not waiting until last second to tap, etc) will do better than esoteric training and will certainly keep a good amount of money in your wallet.
1/6/07 9:27 PM
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Bunkou
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Edited: 06-Jan-07 09:27 PM
Member Since: 12/16/2004
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Are you trying to say MT has a greater number of effective kicks than TKD? Or are you trying to say MT kicks are more effective than TKD? Because your post is unclear. Start with that, and then we can look at your "proven fact" theory.
1/7/07 8:18 PM
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GaydarBlane
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Edited: 07-Jan-07
Member Since: 08/13/2003
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I think the side kick itself will start to be utilzed more as a foot jab.
1/8/07 1:23 AM
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Bunkou
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Edited: 08-Jan-07
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I see. Your definition of effective means "if it has been used commonly in MMA." My outlook isn't so limited, and I have the education, martial arts background, and life experience to back it up.
1/12/07 4:33 PM
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GaydarBlane
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Edited: 12-Jan-07
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Weird, Mag. Never met any non-cool guys at MMA training. Not that I'd hang out with them all, but none of them I'd characterize as being pricks toward me or my health. Haven't met many on the TMA side either. I have met a couple with seniority complex where they think they can treat their juniors like shit. Other than that, it's just the delusional thing that bothers me. As for longevity, like I said before, it's all in your personal approach. Anytime the level of contact increase, so does the chance of injury. Other than that factor, they are even imo.
1/13/07 12:20 PM
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Outkaster
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Edited: 14-Jan-07 10:12 PM
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Having a 4th degree black belt in TKD since 1979 I know I had some good times in TMA. I got good at it but it did not matter when it came to Judo and Muai Thai. I have had a bitch of a time adjusting and I might as well have had no training because old habits are hard to break. It is frustrating as hell because a lot of TMA teaches things that just are not effective for the street. I train at a grappling based MMA school for Judo and it is great. I train Kickboxing because it is more like my TKD training and the thing I have noticed is that the whole structure of classes is different and I am still in the old dojo/dojang mindset. It is interesting to see how Martial Arts have evolved since the early 1980's and how some things have become lost. The biggest thing is respect has been lost along the way. Martial Arts often breed bad egos, I noticed this a lot in the tournaments. Now with MMA everyone is a fighter and has dreams of it. I here it everywhere and it is amazing how things have taken off. Things are so different now I guess.
1/15/07 5:57 AM
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Allinthefootwork
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Edited: 15-Jan-07
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Bunkou - did you feel your hands 'atrophied' doing WTF? I've started playing with it, and I enjoy the workout, and the competition, but I have a problem with the forms - very uncomfortable with the rigidity, can't see the applications. And coming from a kickboxing background, I feel my hands are losing potency, just because we hardlt use them.
1/15/07 4:38 PM
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Bunkou
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Edited: 15-Jan-07
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Funny, you cite the exact same two concerns my son has with TKD. Hands atrophying? Oh, absolutely (though skilled body shots can put you ahead of the pack). If your goal is to excel with all weapons at all ranges, obviously TKD isn't the sport to pursue (in and of itself). Forms? I always tell people to quit looking for application. Forms are for aesthetics, like gymnastics. It's about a certain look. You have to be able to separate the concepts in your head, or you'll have a very tough time with forms.
1/15/07 4:43 PM
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Bunkou
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Edited: 15-Jan-07
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Outkaster, while I absolutely agree with most of what you said, I always find this argument odd: "It is frustrating as hell because a lot of TMA teaches things that just are not effective for the street." I know far more people who have used TMA effectively in self-defense situations than MMA people. You can do internet searches and find news articles on hundreds of people who've used TMA successfully for self-defense. On top of all that, we get back to the odd contention that anyone truly trains any MA for self-defense. People may start MA for self-defense, but no one sticks with it for that purpose (and it's frankly stupid to do so).
1/16/07 10:41 PM
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Outkaster
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Edited: 15-Mar-07 07:22 PM
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Well I had an altercation in the street when I was 23 where I almost lost a lung from a knife and I was a 1st degree BB then. I guess I thought it would have helped me more, but at that time I was just not that good of a fighter. I should have phrased the post above like "It is frustrating as hell because my TKD training is hindering my Muai Thai learning" I just got told by my instructor I was kicking the Thai pads wrong tonight. I went from shin to foot to shin and kept reverting back to the foot because that is what I had ingrained in my brain for all those years. It is hard relearning. To get back to the point back in the day MA's could be marketed for Self-defense because that is what they were known for when your parents signed you up for lessons. My mother thought it was great to be able to protect yourself and liked the idea of me learning that when I was 11. Then the schools did things different marketing wise. With Kung Fu in the 70's, The Ninja craze in the 1980's, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles in the 90's (for the kids), Akido (Steven Seagul),and now MMA people have found they could make a hell of a lot of money in the MA's. I have seen it over and over because I have lived through it. What I don't like is people make you feel bad because you are in or have studied a traditional Martial Art. I get shit all the time for being in TKD but I will tell you something, at 39 years old I still have flexibility and can do some good kicks that no one else can do. Now does it matter in MMA? Probably not at all. That is part of the respect thing I was talking about. I guess what you have to ask yourself is, can you still bring something good to the table. Are you still viable? That is how it is gone for me since getting into Judo and now a little kickboxing. Judo is traditional but it's techniques can really work in MMA so I feel I can get a taste of some grappling. The instructor is real good and knows his shit so that helps. The MA's have evolved a whole lot and it is amazing to think of it now. I just E-Bayed BB magazines I had since 1979 till 2000. I had a few Inside Kung-Fu magazines also thrown in there. Man it brought back memories and was kind of sad in a way. Things are just different now because I am older also.
1/17/07 9:48 AM
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GaydarBlane
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Edited: 17-Jan-07
Member Since: 08/13/2003
Posts: 6292
^^^ That said, some MA's (such as the combat sports) prepare one a lot better for a real altercation than others. Navy SEALS get killed as do Army Infantry... It doesn't mean both their combat training is equally viable.
1/17/07 10:57 AM
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Allinthefootwork
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Edited: 17-Jan-07
Member Since: 11/16/2004
Posts: 71
Self defence is about awareness, attitude and attributes. MA, particularly ones that spar, help you with the last two. They'll make you fitter, faster,calmer under physical pressure. They won't stop you from getting carjacked or bottled in a biker bar.
1/17/07 12:01 PM
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GaydarBlane
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Edited: 17-Jan-07
Member Since: 08/13/2003
Posts: 6298
"Having a cool head and "strategically talking my way out" served me better." And as long as you aren't being macho and are looking for a way out, having experience being under fire in the ring or cage will allow you to think much more clearly and remain calm when under fire on the streets if it does escalate to violence. "I would put a heavy emphasis on "awareness". Seriously, just about most shit can be avoided. You don't want to get bottled behind the head in a biker bar? Simple, don't hang out in biker bars..." Right. I think that point is moot though. When self defense is brought up in a martial arts context it is almost exclusively used in terms of physical techniques to aid you in a violent confrontation. De-escalation techniques, avoidance, and awareness are rarely what one is speaking of.

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