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DantheWolfMan UnderGround >> The Franco/Blauer situation


3/7/02 8:32 AM
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Tom Campbell
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Edited: 07-Mar-02
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The whole thing Sucks! T.C.
3/7/02 8:32 AM
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Maurice Dumas
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Edited: 07-Mar-02
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Nice. ttt. maurice
3/7/02 8:32 AM
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richardc
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Edited: 07-Mar-02
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To be fair , sammy franco has removed the anti-blauer posts from his board. He has kept his original criticism of the spear technique though. It's unfortunate that he isnt accepting more discussions on the thread, but i can sort of understand it. The post looks like it was actually made several months ago, and if he's made his mind up that he doesn't like SPEAR, I guess thats his perogitive. As far as countering the criticism , i think the best way, is what many have already done. Logically counter the criticism with real world evidence and technical knowledge. As a visitor, I was pretty dissapointed to see all the other garbage that some posted on this forum though. I wouldn't worry about Joestagners comments, from someone who knows nothing about the history, he just comes across as a bit of fruitloop, who needs to get over whatever happened and move on. I actually own one of franco's books and thought it was pretty good, I also plan on buying Tony's BYOB package. Im sure it will be outstanding, but I dont think that any one person has a monopoly on the truth ,its a pity that Tony and Sammy cant work together and swap ideas. Im sure we would all benefit from it. Cheers, Richard
3/7/02 8:32 AM
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ewalker
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Edited: 07-Mar-02
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The truth will always be persecuted and receive critisism from small minded people. Eric
3/7/02 8:32 AM
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nowaydo
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Edited: 07-Mar-02
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Stansfield, Maybe,those words were too strong. I apoligize. I shouldn't of said "cult-like". Maybe, the anger towards me was justified, but I hope a little of what I was trying to say seeped through. I don't advertise, sale videos, books and my clients non-martial artist females 17-70, who have the courage to take a rape prevention class. I've spent less than hour of my lifetime sharing Tony's SPEAR concept with a group of "paying" female students($13 a class...big money). It went very well. They all have Tony's mailing address and number to purchase Tony's material. They also have information about Gracie Rape Safe, Model Mugging, Krav, RAT and various other resources. If Tony would like a few dollars for that, I wouldn't mind if he asked me personally. It would be an honor! But, I think he can speak for himself. And the concepts that have "his patent" made up about 1% of the last class I taught....there is other information out there, believe it or not. Again, no one has a patent on common sense and good combative choices. Stansfield, You seem to be a very zealful, enthusiastic and devoted representative. Good Luck to you and your PDR Brothers! "The view from the high road is always better."
3/7/02 8:32 AM
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richardc
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Edited: 07-Mar-02
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P, I think thats pretty unfair. Your demonising one guy and making the other out to be angel, things are rarely that black and white. Lets be honest, Tony's is not an open forum as claimed(hence the pop up at the start) and it is basically visted by those who are strong belivers in Tony's work. Hence criticism is rarely welcomed. (As is common on many other boards) It was bad judgement for Sammy to criticise the way he originally did, but he has now removed *all* postings which are ctitical in anyway of Tony. I just think both men misunderstood each others interpretation of the "ceasefire" , Sammy thinks its a blanket removal, Tony's is more complex (Such as rebuttals of the original criticism). I think its unfair to say that Sammy "showed his true colors" , I think he just lost his cool , because he felt Tony wasnt holding up his end of the deal as Sammy believed it to be. True, he should cool down and start again, but immedialty jumping on him hardly makes a descalation possible. Sammy did remove the slander by Joe quite early in the game, but they were reposted by "anonymous" (read: Joe) and were again deleted within 24 hours. Also Sammy has complemented Tony on his board when asked about him in an earlier thread. Surely these count for something? Although Tony may not directly criticise Sammy, posts under the banner of info@blauer do. This is Tony's organisation that is posting and surely comes under his control? Look at the headers to each of the reposted emails between Tony and Sammy (sammys ones have a slightly mocking title, such as "At last the promised truth?" whilst Tonys are headed with such things as "Tonys professional gesture". I understand that sammy threw the first shot, but he has now removed that post. Why push the guy further? These guys obviously got pissed at each other and I think it hurts both guys reputation when this sort of thing goes on. What happened to the descalation techniques that both men champion? Cheers, Richard
3/7/02 8:32 AM
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nowaydo
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"Lets be honest, Tony's is not an open forum as claimed(hence the pop up at the start) and it is basically visted by those who are strong belivers in Tony's work. Hence criticism is rarely welcomed. (As is common on many other boards) It was bad judgement for Sammy to criticise the way he originally did, but he has now removed *all* postings which are ctitical in anyway of Tony." I have to agree with that statement. I'm a big Blauer fan. I've invested in his work and research, shared his name and concepts with others, thinks he has a "special gift" as a teacher and truly believes he has revolutionized "the real fight"! ........Yet, I rarely come to this forum anymore and I've noticed the number threads are coming down. It reminds me of traditional stylist who are so "loyal" to their art, they refuse to hear anything else. It's becoming somewhat "cult-like"! I think Tony does most of his talking by signing more teaching contracts all over the world and sharing his gift! There's his proof! The rest should just chill out! No way is the way!
3/7/02 8:32 AM
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hal5150
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Edited: 07-Mar-02
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It was only 1 or 2 weeks back that we all witnessed a very professional exchange between Tony and Scott Sonnon. I guess this is the example of an unprofessional exchange. Yin-Yang. Keep smiling Coach Blauer, We are behind you. Hal Pierce PDR Team
3/7/02 8:32 AM
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The RealStudent
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Edited: 07-Mar-02
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Okay, let's all take some deep breaths and step back a bit from the situation. 1) Mr. Franco has removed the posts that followed his critique of the S.P.E.A.R. so far as he understood it. He runs his own show; he's allowed to have his own ideas; he's allowed to be wrong - or right. We think he's wrong, but it's his show. 2) The most offensive stuff did not come from Mr. Franco, but from Joe Stagner, who has his own axes to grind, own issues, peculiarly his own sense of loyalty which he now professes to Mr. Franco. To his credit, Mr. Franco has also removed those posts, which contained very offensive, factually wrong, personal attacks. 3) Overlooked is that one of the earliest posts on the Franco website is a question concerning Paul Vunak and Tony Blauer. In his response Mr. Franco chacterized Coach as one respected by many as an innovator. The real problems do not appear to me to be coming from Mr. Franco; Joe is digging his own karmic hole. IMHO, I think Mr. Franco's part in this can be put to rest. RealStudent
3/7/02 8:32 AM
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martial_shadow
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Edited: 07-Mar-02
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Hey guys, I just got this from Franco's forum- peace is on its way!

After a long phone conversation on May 3rd at (11AM) Tony Blauer and I have agreed to bury the hatchet.

We agreed to take down from the forums (we moderate) any analysis, criticism or attacks on each other's system or persons within 24 hours from each other. I have already removed any potentially offensive threads from my forum. We further agreed in the future not to engage in or allow from our associates or forum members personal attacks, smear campaigns or disparaging comments about the other or his system. We appreciate your cooperation on this matter.

I am sending copies of this to both Tony's and my forums, personally to Tony, Black Belt Magazine, my attorney and various martial arts/self-defense forums.

-Sammy Franco

I just thought you all would like to see that.

MS

3/7/02 8:32 AM
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P
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Edited: 07-Mar-02
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Magnus, How about a 'real' apology instead! (BTW...liked the CNN crack ...) But in reality, this is not funny, so before the games begin, everybody deserves to see the truth...And if this thread did not spell it out to them then not even Seeing Eye dogs, Braille or Translators will help!! There is a clear distinction between Mr. Franco’s letters and Mr. Blauer’s; one reveals a sensitivity, a maturity and an essence of truth, the other is spin-doctoring but the truth is finally revealed in just 24 hours; Mr. Franco went from ‘Let's bury the hatchet’ to ‘I'm suing you’. On one hand this sort of stuff may look like it has nothing to do with combat, but if you look past petty fixation... then reading Mr. Blauer’s posts offers insight into tactics and mental management, and so on a deep level, the Mental Edge is revealed in every post or letter he writes Yes, these threads may bore some, and some may criticize Tony for allowing them to remain, but as many of the posts have indicated; I feel it is important (as the opening thread should remind you) that ‘true colors’ should be displayed in sparkling Technicolor. And for those of you who disagree, CHANGE THE STATION! This is C-SPAN (LIVE TV!)…You want make-believe? You can get the "Power Rangers" on FOX! :-) P. ps- Anyone who wishes to share intelligent thoughts or opinion concerning this thread, please feel free to post. But please try to avoid the type of language that got us here in the first place.
3/7/02 12:00 AM
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nowaydo
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Edited: 07-Mar-02
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ttt
3/7/02 8:32 AM
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nowaydo
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Edited: 07-Mar-02
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No Mas!
3/7/02 8:32 AM
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richardc
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Edited: 07-Mar-02
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"It is clear you are defending Sammy and its very honorable and thankfully you are addressing it maturely and it is clear I am defending Mr. Blauer and hopefully I am being professional as well." No problem, I am not in anyway associated with sammy (i dont know either guy from a bar of soap) I just felt that he was getting a lot of flak, when it seemed he hadn't really done that much wrong (poor wording of the spear criticism aside) , I could then understand why he flew of the handle. However, I do appreciate that I have very little idea of the history between him and Tony. So my judgements are based on a limited set of facts. Anyway, hopefully these guys can work something out in the long run. It seems a shame that due to loyalties on either side, people may miss out on anything of value that the other man can teach. Cheers, Richard
3/7/02 8:32 AM
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Naso
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Edited: 07-Mar-02
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Can't we all just get along? "Good information doesn't displace good information." "Absorb what is useful." The fact is that both Sammy Franco and Tony Blauer are trying to help us stay safe in confrontations. Isn't that a tie that binds? I just wish there were more people in the martial arts with Coach Blauer's openmindedness and integrity. Strength & Honor Naso Karas
3/7/02 8:32 AM
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richardc
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Edited: 07-Mar-02
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Stansfield, I hope you dont mind if i only reply to a few points you made. All were good, there's just a few I think are more important than others. "Both threads were started by anti-Blauer people." That does not mean they were started here by Sammy or one of his associates. It is quite possible and I think likely that someone just wants to feel important by causing trouble. Sammy is copping it verbally , possibly all for someones else's amusement. All he see's is that there is a mountain of insults piling up on this board about him. "Consider this: If Orange Crush posted that Coke was harmful, there would be a lawsuit or at a minimum, a professional retraction demanded." I do agree with this , it was a bad judgement to word it the way he did. To me , the deal still seems a bit one sided. He has removed all critical posts about Tony. Yet nearly all about him are still on this board, (and some are from Tonys representatives) plus he basically has to apologise. In the interests of all , why not let him save a little face? I understand about the Bosnia vs demonstration thing, but it was not Sammy who posted the slander about Tony,that was Joe, and each time it was posted, it was removed withing 24 hours. It has been said that Pro-Blauer posts were removed straight away (Sammy's group have made the same accusations about here). I would put this down to "needling", yes its going to piss people off if you keep negative posts up a bit longer than positve ones. To be honest I think both camps are guilty of this "needling". Although Tonys emails to Sammy were polite, as I see it, they were deliberatly pushing a few buttons. When things were breaking down, Tonys was the first to fire off a few shots about Sammys "motives". And although his final email, wished that they my try again soon, it had several final digs that I would not consider conductive to giving it another go. Regardless of the motives for reposting their emails to each other, you can bet the other side (Sammy) is going to see it as one last insult. Once two parties have a rift , it always very difficult to patch things up. Each party feels self righteous in their attacks on the other, so round and round it goes. I think its a pity that whoever deceided in causing a bit of sh*t has succeded very well. Regards, Richard PS Although I am in some parts "defending" Sammy and it could be said "criticising" Tony, I commend the fact that my posts are left intact
3/7/02 8:32 AM
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bremc
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Edited: 07-Mar-02
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All of this is absolutely amazing:-(

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